{"success":true,"count":11,"items":[{"videoId":"8xLquwfx6p0","chunkIndex":0,"totalChunks":11,"title":"The surprising advice from a founder who built 2 unicorns | Jason Cohen (WP Engine) — Part 1 of 11","thumbnail":"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8xLquwfx6p0/maxresdefault.jpg","duration":6364,"uploader":"Lenny's Podcast","youtubeUrl":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xLquwfx6p0","keywords":["startup","growth","product","pricing","customer-retention","business-strategy","founder-advice","entrepreneurship"],"normalizedKeywords":["비즈니스·전략","프로덕트","마케팅"],"targetAudience":[{"who":"초기 창업자","why":"성장 정체의 원인을 고객, 가격, 채널, 필요성 순서로 진단할 수 있음"},{"who":"프로덕트 매니저","why":"제품 성장이 멈췄을 때 무엇부터 점검해야 하는지 실전 프레임을 얻음"},{"who":"그로스 담당자","why":"마케팅만으로 해결되지 않는 성장 한계를 더 구조적으로 이해할 수 있음"}],"normalizedAudience":["창업자·스타트업","프로덕트 매니저·기획자","마케터·그로스"],"summary":"이 영상은 제품의 성장이 갑자기 멈췄을 때 무엇을 먼저 점검해야 하는지에 대한 제이슨 코헨의 실전 진단 프레임을 소개한다. 그는 성장 둔화의 원인을 감정적으로 '망했다'고 해석하기보다, 고객 이탈 여부, 가격·포지셔닝, 채널 포화, 그리고 애초에 더 성장해야 하는 상황인지의 순서로 냉정하게 분해해 보라고 말한다.\n\n핵심 메시지는 성장 정체를 단순한 마케팅 실패로 보지 말라는 것이다. 이미 제품을 사고까지 온 고객이 떠난다면 제품 자체 문제일 가능성이 크고, 가격이 너무 싸면 오히려 품질 신호가 약해질 수 있으며, 채널이 포화됐을 수도 있다. 나아가 회사 규모나 사업 단계에 따라 '무조건 성장'이 정답이 아닐 수 있다는 점도 함께 짚는다.","insights":["성장 둔화는 감정이 아니라 진단 문제다.","고객 이탈은 제품 가치가 무너졌다는 강한 신호다.","가격이 너무 싸면 품질 신호가 약해질 수 있다.","마케팅만으로는 채널 포화를 계속 넘기기 어렵다.","모든 회사가 계속 2배 성장해야 하는 건 아니다."],"keyClips":[{"clipId":"8xLquwfx6p0:c0:1-10","startSegmentIndex":1,"endSegmentIndex":10,"startTime":1.189,"endTime":52.16,"durationSeconds":51,"preview":"성장정체 진단법","mustSee":true},{"clipId":"8xLquwfx6p0:c0:11-15","startSegmentIndex":11,"endSegmentIndex":15,"startTime":52.16,"endTime":79.119,"durationSeconds":27,"preview":"성장만이 답인가","mustSee":false},{"clipId":"8xLquwfx6p0:c0:78-92","startSegmentIndex":78,"endSegmentIndex":92,"startTime":516.399,"endTime":607.68,"durationSeconds":91.3,"preview":"왜 성장이 멈추나","mustSee":false}],"curatedSegments":[{"segmentIndex":72,"text":"they're part of the you know um and I'm a big believer in saying not all important things are numbers I mean even things like how differentiated are we in the market not a number but it's very important so this might be one of those things that's important but not a number so okay can we get some proxy metrics even of behavior other things that's something um something better than some metric that's you know just operational and even if it's qualitative okay can we do that can we talk to customers and ask them qualitative questions to try to say like you know I would just say like do your best here because only when you generate more value for the customer you can then decide how to split that with the customer in terms of things like price you know right um but that's my um that's in fact how I think of it that very phrase how do we create more value for the customer and then split that with them and when you do that you're keeping the customer forefront in mind you are taking some like splitting means you get some like let's not forget it's not a charity and on the other hand first we should think how are we generating value for customers and then think and then we can take a little we've now earned the ability to take a little piece of that","startTime":3530.16,"endTime":3540.16,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":10,"rationale":"가치·가격 원칙과 표현이 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":32,"text":"So you again I don't mean to overstate this and I certainly don't mean to claim that there's some answer that's right for everybody of course but surely this is the right kind of question and surely for many people who are listening to this the answer is yeah I mean in some sense some very rough sense that's probably right for me and so if I'm in a stagnant situation and really every other option has been exhausted and isn't going to happen this is simply a stagnant thing maybe there's something else needs to happen I need to leave.","startTime":5014.32,"endTime":5021.199,"durationSeconds":7,"level":"C1","overallScore":9.8,"rationale":"질문의 중요성과 행동 전환을 집약."},{"segmentIndex":69,"text":"But I've just more and more realized quality is actually the only thing that matters and the consistency doesn't matter.","startTime":467.36,"endTime":473.599,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.4,"rationale":"품질만 중요하단 강한 통찰 제시."},{"segmentIndex":85,"text":"Being famous is a mixed bag. 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Even if you're doing everything right, but marketing doesn't.","startTime":932.32,"endTime":938.16,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"해지의 본질과 함의를 압축해 설명."},{"segmentIndex":22,"text":"Complex systems do not have one root cause. They often have many interlocking things that could be done to detect earlier or to change it or to reduce or and not one root cause.","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1349.2,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"복합계 원인관의 핵심 통찰 문장."},{"segmentIndex":54,"text":"Now if you have a lot of data you can literally correlate signals with cancellation and try to extract that um you know precisely but even without data you can guess and guessing and having a theory acting accordingly and as you get more data adjusting your theory this is a wise way to proceed even without data.","startTime":1591.84,"endTime":1608.88,"durationSeconds":17,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"데이터 없는 실행 원칙까지 제시함."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"So that's a huge change. And so in the SAS equivalent is, as we all know, if they leave early, not only is it bad, but it's super unprofitable because you spent all this money to acquire them and then they never stayed around long enough to pay it back, much less to be profitable.","startTime":1713.52,"endTime":1726.32,"durationSeconds":13,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"초기 이탈의 경제성을 선명히 설명함."},{"segmentIndex":38,"text":"just what anybody does. So, it's what the good customers have in common that are different from what the bad customers have in common.","startTime":2050.96,"endTime":2054.56,"durationSeconds":4,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"차이 비교의 본질을 정확히 요약한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":48,"text":"So if I give double down 40k not five for the same product which is the leads are cheaper but then now the pitch is I doubled the leads for 40k instead of h instead of having the cost for 5k so double down gets 8x the money because it gets 40k for this product not eight not 5k for this product >> amazing story >> and everyone's happy because the CEO goes what did you do and they said like oh my god I doubled leads what yeah I mean at the same ROI as we had before, same CAC, I doubled leads.","startTime":2722.88,"endTime":2730.64,"durationSeconds":8,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"포지셔닝에 따른 가치 상승이 극명함."},{"segmentIndex":65,"text":"Um and the biggest takeaway here is when you say is pricing correct isn't like what 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and again like obviously the answer could be once again oh new products these other things where like this company when we say do you need to grow if we define you as this product in this market in this company the answer might be no what we need to do is have a different product or in a different market or a different thing or you could change the word uh revenue if you say do you need to grow revenue you could change the word revenue and say you know But what we could do is maximize profit instead of revenue now.","startTime":4764.4,"endTime":4798.56,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"성장 정의 전환과 대안 제시가 탁월함."},{"segmentIndex":9,"text":"It might be, but I would submit that even at a bootstrap company that has other values and culture um other than growth at all costs that phrase is still fairly relevant because if the company's stagnant for years, is that a great environment for everyone as the founder?","startTime":4850.32,"endTime":4870.159,"durationSeconds":20,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"정체의 조직적 비용을 깊게 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":18,"text":"We've got in that mode for so long, like maybe our whole life that I was going to say lose sight of, but maybe we never had sight of, wait, does this make me happy?","startTime":4914.159,"endTime":4924.159,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"행복을 놓친 삶의 맹점을 찌름."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"But to get going, sure. 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Even if you're doing everything right, but marketing doesn't.","startTime":932.32,"endTime":938.16,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"해지의 본질과 함의를 압축해 설명."},{"segmentIndex":22,"text":"Complex systems do not have one root cause. 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So, it's what the good customers have in common that are different from what the bad customers have in common.","startTime":2050.96,"endTime":2054.56,"durationSeconds":4,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"차이 비교의 본질을 정확히 요약한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":48,"text":"So if I give double down 40k not five for the same product which is the leads are cheaper but then now the pitch is I doubled the leads for 40k instead of h instead of having the cost for 5k so double down gets 8x the money because it gets 40k for this product not eight not 5k for this product >> amazing story >> and everyone's happy because the CEO goes what did you do and they said like oh my god I doubled leads what yeah I mean at the same ROI as we had before, same CAC, I doubled leads.","startTime":2722.88,"endTime":2730.64,"durationSeconds":8,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"포지셔닝에 따른 가치 상승이 극명함."},{"segmentIndex":65,"text":"Um and the biggest takeaway here is when you say is pricing correct isn't like what 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They often have many interlocking things that could be done to detect earlier or to change it or to reduce or and not one root cause.","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1349.2,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"복합계 원인관의 핵심 통찰 문장."},{"segmentIndex":54,"text":"Now if you have a lot of data you can literally correlate signals with cancellation and try to extract that um you know precisely but even without data you can guess and guessing and having a theory acting accordingly and as you get more data adjusting your theory this is a wise way to proceed even without data.","startTime":1591.84,"endTime":1608.88,"durationSeconds":17,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"데이터 없는 실행 원칙까지 제시함."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"So that's a huge change. 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So, it's what the good customers have in common that are different from what the bad customers have in common.","startTime":2050.96,"endTime":2054.56,"durationSeconds":4,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"차이 비교의 본질을 정확히 요약한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":48,"text":"So if I give double down 40k not five for the same product which is the leads are cheaper but then now the pitch is I doubled the leads for 40k instead of h instead of having the cost for 5k so double down gets 8x the money because it gets 40k for this product not eight not 5k for this product >> amazing story >> and everyone's happy because the CEO goes what did you do and they said like oh my god I doubled leads what yeah I mean at the same ROI as we had before, same CAC, I doubled leads.","startTime":2722.88,"endTime":2730.64,"durationSeconds":8,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"포지셔닝에 따른 가치 상승이 극명함."},{"segmentIndex":65,"text":"Um and the biggest takeaway here is when you say is pricing correct isn't like what 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they're both useful in fact but that's this is why they're both useful so NR of course is important a nice way to see this is it if all this is if everything I'm saying is true and there's these limits and stuff because of cancellation then there should be no way to get a big company like a public SAS company Unless NR is greater than 100, like otherwise cancellation should just win.","startTime":3325.68,"endTime":3359.2,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"N과 NR의 관계를 깊게 해석함."},{"segmentIndex":69,"text":"So, the idea here is and the classic advice is like not whether it's an S-curve or an Lin curve, think about are you starting to approach the apex of that and start to explore other channels before you slow down or start to dip.","startTime":4648.32,"endTime":4664.08,"durationSeconds":16,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"핵심 조언과 고급 구조가 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":84,"text":"Now of course you should know these kind of things with goals all the time but 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mean even things like how differentiated are we in the market not a number but it's very important so this might be one of those things that's important but not a number so okay can we get some proxy metrics even of behavior other things that's something um something better than some metric that's you know just operational and even if it's qualitative okay can we do that can we talk to customers and ask them qualitative questions to try to say like you know I would just say like do your best here because only when you generate more value for the customer you can then decide how to split that with the customer in terms of things like price you know right um but that's my um that's in fact how I think of it that very phrase how do we create more value for the customer and then split that with them and when you do that you're keeping the customer forefront in mind you are taking some like splitting means you get some like let's not forget it's not a charity and on the other hand first we 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Even if you're doing everything right, but marketing doesn't.","startTime":932.32,"endTime":938.16,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"해지의 본질과 함의를 압축해 설명."},{"segmentIndex":22,"text":"Complex systems do not have one root cause. They often have many interlocking things that could be done to detect earlier or to change it or to reduce or and not one root cause.","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1349.2,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"복합계 원인관의 핵심 통찰 문장."},{"segmentIndex":54,"text":"Now if you have a lot of data you can literally correlate signals with cancellation and try to extract that um you know precisely but even without data you can guess and guessing and having a theory acting accordingly and as you get more data adjusting your theory this is a wise way to proceed even without data.","startTime":1591.84,"endTime":1608.88,"durationSeconds":17,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"데이터 없는 실행 원칙까지 제시함."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"So that's a huge change. And so in the SAS equivalent is, as we all know, if they leave early, not only is it bad, but it's super unprofitable because you spent all this money to acquire them and then they never stayed around long enough to pay it back, much less to be profitable.","startTime":1713.52,"endTime":1726.32,"durationSeconds":13,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"초기 이탈의 경제성을 선명히 설명함."},{"segmentIndex":38,"text":"just what anybody does. So, it's what the good customers have in common that are different from what the bad customers have in common.","startTime":2050.96,"endTime":2054.56,"durationSeconds":4,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"차이 비교의 본질을 정확히 요약한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":48,"text":"So if I give double down 40k not five for the same product which is the leads are cheaper but then now the pitch is I doubled the leads for 40k instead of h instead of having the cost for 5k so double down gets 8x the money because it gets 40k for this product not eight not 5k for this product >> amazing story >> and everyone's happy because the CEO goes what did you do and they said like oh my god I doubled leads what yeah I mean at the same ROI as we had before, same CAC, I doubled leads.","startTime":2722.88,"endTime":2730.64,"durationSeconds":8,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"포지셔닝에 따른 가치 상승이 극명함."},{"segmentIndex":65,"text":"Um and the biggest takeaway here is when you say is pricing correct isn't like what is the number 20 or 25 or 100 it's almost is the market we are going after correct is the way we are selling to them correct is this price communicating the right sort of story and then also is the positioning of what problem we solve for you correct so there's a lot here and luckily I've done a bunch of episodes along this stuff which we'll point people to >> to go much deeper cuz This is a very >> this is a deep skill and there's a lot to do here.","startTime":2880.64,"endTime":2914.88,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"핵심 교훈 정리, 표현도 풍부함."},{"segmentIndex":71,"text":"So when you say like even when I just said raise prices or whatever um but you can't just raise prices like these new customers have different demands now maybe you need sock too now your other governance stuff matters now integrating to certain systems you didn't know about matters maybe now they need professional services like you can't just raise prices and change market and like that's 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they're both useful in fact but that's this is why they're both useful so NR of course is important a nice way to see this is it if all this is if everything I'm saying is true and there's these limits and stuff because of cancellation then there should be no way to get a big company like a public SAS company Unless NR is greater than 100, like otherwise cancellation should just win.","startTime":3325.68,"endTime":3359.2,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"N과 NR의 관계를 깊게 해석함."},{"segmentIndex":69,"text":"So, the idea here is and the classic advice is like not whether it's an S-curve or an Lin curve, think about are you starting to approach the apex of that and start to explore other channels before you slow down or start to dip.","startTime":4648.32,"endTime":4664.08,"durationSeconds":16,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"핵심 조언과 고급 구조가 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":84,"text":"Now of course you should know these kind of things with goals all the time but and again like obviously the answer could be once again oh new products these other things where like this company when we say do you need to grow if we define you as this product in this market in this company the answer might be no what we need to do is have a different product or in a different market or a different thing or you could change the word uh revenue if you say do you need to grow revenue you could change the word revenue and say you know But what we could do is maximize profit instead of revenue now.","startTime":4764.4,"endTime":4798.56,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"성장 정의 전환과 대안 제시가 탁월함."},{"segmentIndex":9,"text":"It might be, but I would submit that even at a bootstrap company that has other values and culture um other than growth at all costs that phrase is still fairly relevant because if the company's stagnant for years, is that a great environment for everyone as the founder?","startTime":4850.32,"endTime":4870.159,"durationSeconds":20,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"정체의 조직적 비용을 깊게 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":18,"text":"We've got in that mode for so long, like maybe our whole life that I was going to say lose sight of, but maybe we never had sight of, wait, does this make me happy?","startTime":4914.159,"endTime":4924.159,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"행복을 놓친 삶의 맹점을 찌름."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"But to get going, sure. So um sometimes we have this thing where we get going with maybe looser I don't want to say values I'm not saying it's unethical but like looser sort of bar or a pride that we have in our own work and we tighten it up as we're sort of able um as we can afford to you might even say so good but that's a then that becomes a nice filter here of like what is it in a greater sense I'm trying to do here I'm willing to do here.","startTime":5228.159,"endTime":5255.44,"durationSeconds":27,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"기준을 점진적으로 높이는 통찰 깊음."}],"generatedAt":"2026-06-25T00:34:41.899Z","keyClipsTotalSec":1412},{"videoId":"8xLquwfx6p0","chunkIndex":4,"totalChunks":11,"title":"The surprising advice from a founder who built 2 unicorns | Jason Cohen (WP Engine) — Part 5 of 11","thumbnail":"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8xLquwfx6p0/maxresdefault.jpg","duration":6364,"uploader":"Lenny's 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the you know um and I'm a big believer in saying not all important things are numbers I mean even things like how differentiated are we in the market not a number but it's very important so this might be one of those things that's important but not a number so okay can we get some proxy metrics even of behavior other things that's something um something better than some metric that's you know just operational and even if it's qualitative okay can we do that can we talk to customers and ask them qualitative questions to try to say like you know I would just say like do your best here because only when you generate more value for the customer you can then decide how to split that with the customer in terms of things like price you know right um but that's my um that's in fact how I think of it that very phrase how do we create more value for the customer and then split that with them and when you do that you're keeping the customer forefront in mind you are taking some like splitting 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Even if you're doing everything right, but marketing doesn't.","startTime":932.32,"endTime":938.16,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"해지의 본질과 함의를 압축해 설명."},{"segmentIndex":22,"text":"Complex systems do not have one root cause. They often have many interlocking things that could be done to detect earlier or to change it or to reduce or and not one root cause.","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1349.2,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"복합계 원인관의 핵심 통찰 문장."},{"segmentIndex":54,"text":"Now if you have a lot of data you can literally correlate signals with cancellation and try to extract that um you know precisely but even without data you can guess and guessing and having a theory acting accordingly and as you get more data adjusting your theory this is a wise way to proceed even without data.","startTime":1591.84,"endTime":1608.88,"durationSeconds":17,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"데이터 없는 실행 원칙까지 제시함."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"So that's a huge change. And so in the SAS equivalent is, as we all know, if they leave early, not only is it bad, but it's super unprofitable because you spent all this money to acquire them and then they never stayed around long enough to pay it back, much less to be profitable.","startTime":1713.52,"endTime":1726.32,"durationSeconds":13,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"초기 이탈의 경제성을 선명히 설명함."},{"segmentIndex":38,"text":"just what anybody does. So, it's what the good customers have in common that are different from what the bad customers have in common.","startTime":2050.96,"endTime":2054.56,"durationSeconds":4,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"차이 비교의 본질을 정확히 요약한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":48,"text":"So if I give double down 40k not five for the same product which is the leads are cheaper but then now the pitch is I doubled the leads for 40k instead of h instead of having the cost for 5k so double down gets 8x the money because it gets 40k for this product not eight not 5k for this product >> amazing story >> and everyone's happy because the CEO goes what did you do and they said like oh my god I doubled leads what yeah I mean at the same ROI as we had before, same CAC, I doubled leads.","startTime":2722.88,"endTime":2730.64,"durationSeconds":8,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"포지셔닝에 따른 가치 상승이 극명함."},{"segmentIndex":65,"text":"Um and the biggest takeaway here is when you say is pricing correct isn't like what is the number 20 or 25 or 100 it's almost is the market we are going after correct is the way we are selling to them correct is this price communicating the right sort of story and then also is the positioning of what problem we solve for you correct so there's a lot here and luckily I've done a bunch of episodes along this stuff which we'll point people to >> to go much deeper cuz This is a very >> this is a deep skill and there's a lot to do here.","startTime":2880.64,"endTime":2914.88,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"핵심 교훈 정리, 표현도 풍부함."},{"segmentIndex":71,"text":"So when you say like even when I just said raise prices or whatever um but you can't just raise prices like these new customers have different demands now maybe you need sock too now your other governance stuff matters now integrating to certain systems you didn't know about matters maybe now they need professional services like you can't just raise prices and change market and like that's it and maybe that's wise to do but maybe it's not maybe you realize that sure, of course, that other market has certain advantages, but they also have disadvantages, and we don't want those either because we'll no longer be competitive because the way that we're distinguished, competitive, special,","startTime":2960.88,"endTime":2970.88,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"가격 인상과 시장 변화의 함정 설명."},{"segmentIndex":33,"text":"And the way that's computed is you say what is the revenue of customers right now like so existing customers existing whatever just the whole total and then one year from now what of that remains so not new customers coming in not talking about them because we're asking about the cohort that exists what remains so with cancels it goes down with downgrades it goes down but with upgrades it goes up so when I say remains it could end higher than we started if upgrades exceed cancellations and downgrades and now we are talking about MR and not N 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they're both useful in fact but that's this is why they're both useful so NR of course is important a nice way to see this is it if all this is if everything I'm saying is true and there's these limits and stuff because of cancellation then there should be no way to get a big company like a public SAS company Unless NR is greater than 100, like otherwise cancellation should just win.","startTime":3325.68,"endTime":3359.2,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"N과 NR의 관계를 깊게 해석함."},{"segmentIndex":69,"text":"So, the idea here is and the classic advice is like not whether it's an S-curve or an Lin curve, think about are you starting to approach the apex of that and start to explore other channels before you slow down or start to dip.","startTime":4648.32,"endTime":4664.08,"durationSeconds":16,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"핵심 조언과 고급 구조가 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":84,"text":"Now of course you should know these kind of things with goals all the time but and again like obviously the answer could be once again oh new products these other things where like this company when we say do you need to grow if we define you as this product in this market in this company the answer might be no what we need to do is have a different product or in a different market or a different thing or you could change the word uh revenue if you say do you need to grow revenue you could change the word revenue and say you know But what we could do is maximize profit instead of revenue now.","startTime":4764.4,"endTime":4798.56,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"성장 정의 전환과 대안 제시가 탁월함."},{"segmentIndex":9,"text":"It might be, but I would submit that even at a bootstrap company that has other values and culture um other than growth at all costs that phrase is still fairly relevant because if the company's stagnant for years, is that a great environment for everyone as the founder?","startTime":4850.32,"endTime":4870.159,"durationSeconds":20,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"정체의 조직적 비용을 깊게 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":18,"text":"We've got in that mode for so long, like maybe our whole life that I was going to say lose sight of, but maybe we never had sight of, wait, does this make me happy?","startTime":4914.159,"endTime":4924.159,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"행복을 놓친 삶의 맹점을 찌름."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"But to get going, sure. 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it's very important so this might be one of those things that's important but not a number so okay can we get some proxy metrics even of behavior other things that's something um something better than some metric that's you know just operational and even if it's qualitative okay can we do that can we talk to customers and ask them qualitative questions to try to say like you know I would just say like do your best here because only when you generate more value for the customer you can then decide how to split that with the customer in terms of things like price you know right um but that's my um that's in fact how I think of it that very phrase how do we create more value for the customer and then split that with them and when you do that you're keeping the customer forefront in mind you are taking some like splitting means you get some like let's not forget it's not a charity and on the other hand first we should think how are we generating value for customers and then think and then 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Even if you're doing everything right, but marketing doesn't.","startTime":932.32,"endTime":938.16,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"해지의 본질과 함의를 압축해 설명."},{"segmentIndex":22,"text":"Complex systems do not have one root cause. They often have many interlocking things that could be done to detect earlier or to change it or to reduce or and not one root cause.","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1349.2,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"복합계 원인관의 핵심 통찰 문장."},{"segmentIndex":54,"text":"Now if you have a lot of data you can literally correlate signals with cancellation and try to extract that um you know precisely but even without data you can guess and guessing and having a theory acting accordingly and as you get more data adjusting your theory this is a wise way to proceed even without data.","startTime":1591.84,"endTime":1608.88,"durationSeconds":17,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"데이터 없는 실행 원칙까지 제시함."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"So that's a huge change. 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So, it's what the good customers have in common that are different from what the bad customers have in common.","startTime":2050.96,"endTime":2054.56,"durationSeconds":4,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"차이 비교의 본질을 정확히 요약한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":48,"text":"So if I give double down 40k not five for the same product which is the leads are cheaper but then now the pitch is I doubled the leads for 40k instead of h instead of having the cost for 5k so double down gets 8x the money because it gets 40k for this product not eight not 5k for this product >> amazing story >> and everyone's happy because the CEO goes what did you do and they said like oh my god I doubled leads what yeah I mean at the same ROI as we had before, same CAC, I doubled leads.","startTime":2722.88,"endTime":2730.64,"durationSeconds":8,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"포지셔닝에 따른 가치 상승이 극명함."},{"segmentIndex":65,"text":"Um and the biggest takeaway here is when you say is pricing correct isn't like what is the number 20 or 25 or 100 it's almost is the market we are going after correct is the way we are selling to them correct is this price communicating the right sort of story and then also is the positioning of what problem we solve for you correct so there's a lot here and luckily I've done a bunch of episodes along this stuff which we'll point people to >> to go much deeper cuz This is a very >> this is a deep skill and there's a lot to do here.","startTime":2880.64,"endTime":2914.88,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"핵심 교훈 정리, 표현도 풍부함."},{"segmentIndex":71,"text":"So when you say like even when I just said raise prices or whatever um but you can't just raise prices like these new customers have different demands now maybe you need sock too now your other governance stuff matters now integrating to certain systems you didn't know about matters maybe now they need professional services like you can't just raise prices and change market and like that's it and maybe that's wise to do but maybe it's not maybe you realize that sure, of course, that other market has certain advantages, but they also have disadvantages, and we don't want those either because we'll no longer be competitive because the way that we're distinguished, competitive, special,","startTime":2960.88,"endTime":2970.88,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"가격 인상과 시장 변화의 함정 설명."},{"segmentIndex":33,"text":"And the way that's computed is you say what is the revenue of customers right now like so existing customers existing whatever just the whole total and then one year from now what of that remains so not new customers coming in not talking about them because we're asking about the cohort that exists what remains so with cancels it goes down with downgrades it goes down but with upgrades it goes up so when I say remains it could end higher than we started if upgrades exceed cancellations and downgrades and now we are talking about MR and not N 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they're both useful in fact but that's this is why they're both useful so NR of course is important a nice way to see this is it if all this is if everything I'm saying is true and there's these limits and stuff because of cancellation then there should be no way to get a big company like a public SAS company Unless NR is greater than 100, like otherwise cancellation should just win.","startTime":3325.68,"endTime":3359.2,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"N과 NR의 관계를 깊게 해석함."},{"segmentIndex":69,"text":"So, the idea here is and the classic advice is like not whether it's an S-curve or an Lin curve, think about are you starting to approach the apex of that and start to explore other channels before you slow down or start to dip.","startTime":4648.32,"endTime":4664.08,"durationSeconds":16,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"핵심 조언과 고급 구조가 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":84,"text":"Now of course you should know these kind of things with goals all the time but and again like obviously the answer could be once again oh new products these other things where like this company when we say do you need to grow if we define you as this product in this market in this company the answer might be no what we need to do is have a different product or in a different market or a different thing or you could change the word uh revenue if you say do you need to grow revenue you could change the word revenue and say you know But what we could do is maximize profit instead of revenue now.","startTime":4764.4,"endTime":4798.56,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"성장 정의 전환과 대안 제시가 탁월함."},{"segmentIndex":9,"text":"It might be, but I would submit that even at a bootstrap company that has other values and culture um other than growth at all costs that phrase is still fairly relevant because if the company's stagnant for years, is that a great environment for everyone as the founder?","startTime":4850.32,"endTime":4870.159,"durationSeconds":20,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"정체의 조직적 비용을 깊게 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":18,"text":"We've got in that mode for so long, like maybe our whole life that I was going to say lose sight of, but maybe we never had sight of, wait, does this make me happy?","startTime":4914.159,"endTime":4924.159,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"행복을 놓친 삶의 맹점을 찌름."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"But to get going, sure. 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먼저","mustSee":false},{"clipId":"8xLquwfx6p0:c6:56-91","startSegmentIndex":56,"endSegmentIndex":91,"startTime":4001.44,"endTime":4208,"durationSeconds":206.6,"preview":"채널은 결국 꺾인다","mustSee":false}],"curatedSegments":[{"segmentIndex":72,"text":"they're part of the you know um and I'm a big believer in saying not all important things are numbers I mean even things like how differentiated are we in the market not a number but it's very important so this might be one of those things that's important but not a number so okay can we get some proxy metrics even of behavior other things that's something um something better than some metric that's you know just operational and even if it's qualitative okay can we do that can we talk to customers and ask them qualitative questions to try to say like you know I would just say like do your best here because only when you generate more value for the customer you can then decide how to split that with the customer in terms of things like price you 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so if I'm in a stagnant situation and really every other option has been exhausted and isn't going to happen this is simply a stagnant thing maybe there's something else needs to happen I need to leave.","startTime":5014.32,"endTime":5021.199,"durationSeconds":7,"level":"C1","overallScore":9.8,"rationale":"질문의 중요성과 행동 전환을 집약."},{"segmentIndex":69,"text":"But I've just more and more realized quality is actually the only thing that matters and the consistency doesn't matter.","startTime":467.36,"endTime":473.599,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.4,"rationale":"품질만 중요하단 강한 통찰 제시."},{"segmentIndex":85,"text":"Being famous is a mixed bag. Losing fame is miserable.","startTime":563.279,"endTime":569.12,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.6,"rationale":"명성과 상실의 대비가 강한 통찰."},{"segmentIndex":37,"text":"So there's a different metric that I like to use which is uh- which um which keys off of this idea that I think again people uh don't appreciate which is cancellations grow faster than marketing and so cancellations overpower the growth of the company and slow it to a halt i.e. growth slows right to where you literally cannot grow anymore.","startTime":848.56,"endTime":872.32,"durationSeconds":24,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"해지와 성장의 구조적 관계를 통찰함."},{"segmentIndex":46,"text":"Like so this is the point is that cancellations automatically grow as you grow. The point is that cancellation is this hard limit pulling you down with all these other really bad either implications or side effects which is why it's so important. Even if you're doing everything right, but marketing doesn't.","startTime":932.32,"endTime":938.16,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"해지의 본질과 함의를 압축해 설명."},{"segmentIndex":22,"text":"Complex systems do not have one root cause. They often have many interlocking things that could be done to detect earlier or to change it or to reduce or and not one root cause.","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1349.2,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"복합계 원인관의 핵심 통찰 문장."},{"segmentIndex":54,"text":"Now if you have a lot of data you can literally correlate signals with cancellation and try to extract that um you know precisely but even without data you can guess and guessing and having a theory acting accordingly and as you get more data adjusting your theory this is a wise way to proceed even without data.","startTime":1591.84,"endTime":1608.88,"durationSeconds":17,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"데이터 없는 실행 원칙까지 제시함."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"So that's a huge change. And so in the SAS equivalent is, as we all know, if they leave early, not only is it bad, but it's super unprofitable because you spent all this money to acquire them and then they never stayed around long enough to pay it back, much less to be profitable.","startTime":1713.52,"endTime":1726.32,"durationSeconds":13,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"초기 이탈의 경제성을 선명히 설명함."},{"segmentIndex":38,"text":"just what anybody does. So, it's what the good customers have in common that are different from what the bad customers have in common.","startTime":2050.96,"endTime":2054.56,"durationSeconds":4,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"차이 비교의 본질을 정확히 요약한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":48,"text":"So if I give double down 40k not five for the same product which is the leads are cheaper but then now the pitch is I doubled the leads for 40k instead of h instead of having the cost for 5k so double down gets 8x the money because it gets 40k for this product not eight not 5k for this product >> amazing story >> and everyone's happy because the CEO goes what did you do and they said like oh my god I doubled leads what yeah I mean at the same ROI as we had before, same CAC, I doubled leads.","startTime":2722.88,"endTime":2730.64,"durationSeconds":8,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"포지셔닝에 따른 가치 상승이 극명함."},{"segmentIndex":65,"text":"Um and the biggest takeaway here is when you say is pricing correct isn't like what is the number 20 or 25 or 100 it's almost is the market we are going after correct is the way we are selling to them correct is this price communicating the right sort of story and then also is the positioning of what problem we solve for you correct so there's a lot here and luckily I've done a bunch of episodes along this stuff which we'll point people to >> to go much deeper cuz This is a very >> this is a deep skill and there's a lot to do here.","startTime":2880.64,"endTime":2914.88,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"핵심 교훈 정리, 표현도 풍부함."},{"segmentIndex":71,"text":"So when you say like even when I just said raise prices or whatever um but you can't just raise prices like these new customers have different demands now maybe you need sock too now your other governance stuff matters now integrating to certain systems you didn't know about matters maybe now they need professional services like you can't just raise prices and change market and like that's it and maybe that's wise to do but maybe it's not maybe you realize that sure, of course, that other market has certain advantages, but they also have disadvantages, and we don't want those either because we'll no longer be competitive because the way that we're distinguished, competitive, special,","startTime":2960.88,"endTime":2970.88,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"가격 인상과 시장 변화의 함정 설명."},{"segmentIndex":33,"text":"And the way that's computed is you say what is the revenue of customers right now like so existing customers existing whatever just the whole total and then one year from now what of that remains so not new customers coming in not talking about them because we're asking about the cohort that exists what remains so with cancels it goes down with downgrades it goes down but with upgrades it goes up so when I say remains it could end higher than we started if upgrades exceed cancellations and downgrades and now we are talking about MR and not N because N doesn't have this N doesn't have an upgrade and just only goes down which again is why I think the N is actually the most important one because think about it like a lot of times people think so if you've heard of NR you might think well that's my golden metric I'm done but the issue is if NR is positive but N goes down too fast it doesn't matter because not enough people are left and so there's not enough people left over to upgrade and so actually you're wrong and so NR does not include that and therefore it actually underounts what's going on in a bad way like in a way that's that hurts you.","startTime":3196.64,"endTime":3267.599,"durationSeconds":71,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"NRR 계산과 한계를 깊게 풀어줌."},{"segmentIndex":45,"text":"saying you got to lo track it like it's good just in the back of your mind realize it's not quite that good and looking at N helps me keep keeps you honest about what's really going on with these customer cohorts right so that's why they're both useful in fact but that's this is why they're both useful so NR of course is important a nice way to see this is it if all this is if everything I'm saying is true and there's these limits and stuff because of cancellation then there should be no way to get a big company like a public SAS company Unless NR is greater than 100, like otherwise cancellation should just win.","startTime":3325.68,"endTime":3359.2,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"N과 NR의 관계를 깊게 해석함."},{"segmentIndex":69,"text":"So, the idea here is and the classic advice is like not whether it's an S-curve or an Lin curve, think about are you starting to approach the apex of that and start to explore other channels before you slow down or start to dip.","startTime":4648.32,"endTime":4664.08,"durationSeconds":16,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"핵심 조언과 고급 구조가 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":84,"text":"Now of course you should know these kind of things with goals all the time but and again like obviously the answer could be once again oh new products these other things where like this company when we say do you need to grow if we define you as this product in this market in this company the answer might be no what we need to do is have a different product or in a different market or a different thing or you could change the word uh revenue if you say do you need to grow revenue you could change the word revenue and say you know But what we could do is maximize profit instead of revenue now.","startTime":4764.4,"endTime":4798.56,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"성장 정의 전환과 대안 제시가 탁월함."},{"segmentIndex":9,"text":"It might be, but I would submit that even at a bootstrap company that has other values and culture um other than growth at all costs that phrase is still fairly relevant because if the company's stagnant for years, is that a great environment for everyone as the founder?","startTime":4850.32,"endTime":4870.159,"durationSeconds":20,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"정체의 조직적 비용을 깊게 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":18,"text":"We've got in that mode for so long, like maybe our whole life that I was going to say lose sight of, but maybe we never had sight of, wait, does this make me happy?","startTime":4914.159,"endTime":4924.159,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"행복을 놓친 삶의 맹점을 찌름."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"But to get going, sure. So um sometimes we have this thing where we get going with maybe looser I don't want to say values I'm not saying it's unethical but like looser sort of bar or a pride that we have in our own work and we tighten it up as we're sort of able um as we can afford to you might even say so good but that's a then that becomes a nice filter here of like what is it in a greater sense I'm trying to do here I'm willing to do here.","startTime":5228.159,"endTime":5255.44,"durationSeconds":27,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"기준을 점진적으로 높이는 통찰 깊음."}],"generatedAt":"2026-06-25T00:35:59.763Z","keyClipsTotalSec":1412},{"videoId":"8xLquwfx6p0","chunkIndex":7,"totalChunks":11,"title":"The surprising advice from a founder who built 2 unicorns | Jason Cohen (WP Engine) — Part 8 of 11","thumbnail":"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8xLquwfx6p0/maxresdefault.jpg","duration":6364,"uploader":"Lenny's 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know right um but that's my um that's in fact how I think of it that very phrase how do we create more value for the customer and then split that with them and when you do that you're keeping the customer forefront in mind you are taking some like splitting means you get some like let's not forget it's not a charity and on the other hand first we should think how are we generating value for customers and then think and then we can take a little we've now earned the ability to take a little piece of that","startTime":3530.16,"endTime":3540.16,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":10,"rationale":"가치·가격 원칙과 표현이 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":32,"text":"So you again I don't mean to overstate this and I certainly don't mean to claim that there's some answer that's right for everybody of course but surely this is the right kind of question and surely for many people who are listening to this the answer is yeah I mean in some sense some very rough sense that's probably right for me and 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They often have many interlocking things that could be done to detect earlier or to change it or to reduce or and not one root cause.","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1349.2,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"복합계 원인관의 핵심 통찰 문장."},{"segmentIndex":54,"text":"Now if you have a lot of data you can literally correlate signals with cancellation and try to extract that um you know precisely but even without data you can guess and guessing and having a theory acting accordingly and as you get more data adjusting your theory this is a wise way to proceed even without data.","startTime":1591.84,"endTime":1608.88,"durationSeconds":17,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"데이터 없는 실행 원칙까지 제시함."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"So that's a huge change. And so in the SAS equivalent is, as we all know, if they leave early, not only is it bad, but it's super unprofitable because you spent all this money to acquire them and then they never stayed around long enough to pay it back, much less to be profitable.","startTime":1713.52,"endTime":1726.32,"durationSeconds":13,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"초기 이탈의 경제성을 선명히 설명함."},{"segmentIndex":38,"text":"just what anybody does. So, it's what the good customers have in common that are different from what the bad customers have in common.","startTime":2050.96,"endTime":2054.56,"durationSeconds":4,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"차이 비교의 본질을 정확히 요약한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":48,"text":"So if I give double down 40k not five for the same product which is the leads are cheaper but then now the pitch is I doubled the leads for 40k instead of h instead of having the cost for 5k so double down gets 8x the money because it gets 40k for this product not eight not 5k for this product >> amazing story >> and everyone's happy because the CEO goes what did you do and they said like oh my god I doubled leads what yeah I mean at the same ROI as we had before, same CAC, I doubled leads.","startTime":2722.88,"endTime":2730.64,"durationSeconds":8,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"포지셔닝에 따른 가치 상승이 극명함."},{"segmentIndex":65,"text":"Um and the biggest takeaway here is when you say is pricing correct isn't like what 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because N doesn't have this N doesn't have an upgrade and just only goes down which again is why I think the N is actually the most important one because think about it like a lot of times people think so if you've heard of NR you might think well that's my golden metric I'm done but the issue is if NR is positive but N goes down too fast it doesn't matter because not enough people are left and so there's not enough people left over to upgrade and so actually you're wrong and so NR does not include that and therefore it actually underounts what's going on in a bad way like in a way that's that hurts you.","startTime":3196.64,"endTime":3267.599,"durationSeconds":71,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"NRR 계산과 한계를 깊게 풀어줌."},{"segmentIndex":45,"text":"saying you got to lo track it like it's good just in the back of your mind realize it's not quite that good and looking at N helps me keep keeps you honest about what's really going on with these customer cohorts right so that's why they're both useful in fact but that's this is why they're both useful so NR of course is important a nice way to see this is it if all this is if everything I'm saying is true and there's these limits and stuff because of cancellation then there should be no way to get a big company like a public SAS company Unless NR is greater than 100, like otherwise cancellation should just win.","startTime":3325.68,"endTime":3359.2,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"N과 NR의 관계를 깊게 해석함."},{"segmentIndex":69,"text":"So, the idea here is and the classic advice is like not whether it's an S-curve or an Lin curve, think about are you starting to approach the apex of that and start to explore other channels before you slow down or start to dip.","startTime":4648.32,"endTime":4664.08,"durationSeconds":16,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"핵심 조언과 고급 구조가 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":84,"text":"Now of course you should know these kind of things with goals all the time but and again like obviously the answer could be once again oh new products these other things where like this company when we say do you need to grow if we define you as this product in this market in this company the answer might be no what we need to do is have a different product or in a different market or a different thing or you could change the word uh revenue if you say do you need to grow revenue you could change the word revenue and say you know But what we could do is maximize profit instead of revenue now.","startTime":4764.4,"endTime":4798.56,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"성장 정의 전환과 대안 제시가 탁월함."},{"segmentIndex":9,"text":"It might be, but I would submit that even at a bootstrap company that has other values and culture um other than growth at all costs that phrase is still fairly relevant because if the company's stagnant for years, is that a great environment for everyone as the founder?","startTime":4850.32,"endTime":4870.159,"durationSeconds":20,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"정체의 조직적 비용을 깊게 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":18,"text":"We've got in that mode for so long, like maybe our whole life that I was going to say lose sight of, but maybe we never had sight of, wait, does this make me happy?","startTime":4914.159,"endTime":4924.159,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"행복을 놓친 삶의 맹점을 찌름."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"But to get going, sure. 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So, it's what the good customers have in common that are different from what the bad customers have in common.","startTime":2050.96,"endTime":2054.56,"durationSeconds":4,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"차이 비교의 본질을 정확히 요약한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":48,"text":"So if I give double down 40k not five for the same product which is the leads are cheaper but then now the pitch is I doubled the leads for 40k instead of h instead of having the cost for 5k so double down gets 8x the money because it gets 40k for this product not eight not 5k for this product >> amazing story >> and everyone's happy because the CEO goes what did you do and they said like oh my god I doubled leads what yeah I mean at the same ROI as we had before, same CAC, I doubled leads.","startTime":2722.88,"endTime":2730.64,"durationSeconds":8,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"포지셔닝에 따른 가치 상승이 극명함."},{"segmentIndex":65,"text":"Um and the biggest takeaway here is when you say is pricing correct isn't like what is the number 20 or 25 or 100 it's almost is the market we are going after correct is the way we are selling to them correct is this price communicating the right sort of story and then also is the positioning of what problem we solve for you correct so there's a lot here and luckily I've done a bunch of episodes along this stuff which we'll point people to >> to go much deeper cuz This is a very >> this is a deep skill and there's a lot to do here.","startTime":2880.64,"endTime":2914.88,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"핵심 교훈 정리, 표현도 풍부함."},{"segmentIndex":71,"text":"So when you say like even when I just said raise prices or whatever um but you can't just raise prices like these new customers have different demands now maybe you need sock too now your other governance stuff matters now integrating to certain systems you didn't know about matters maybe now they need professional services like you can't just raise prices and change market and like that's 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they're both useful in fact but that's this is why they're both useful so NR of course is important a nice way to see this is it if all this is if everything I'm saying is true and there's these limits and stuff because of cancellation then there should be no way to get a big company like a public SAS company Unless NR is greater than 100, like otherwise cancellation should just win.","startTime":3325.68,"endTime":3359.2,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"N과 NR의 관계를 깊게 해석함."},{"segmentIndex":69,"text":"So, the idea here is and the classic advice is like not whether it's an S-curve or an Lin curve, think about are you starting to approach the apex of that and start to explore other channels before you slow down or start to dip.","startTime":4648.32,"endTime":4664.08,"durationSeconds":16,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"핵심 조언과 고급 구조가 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":84,"text":"Now of course you should know these kind of things with goals all the time but and again like obviously the answer could be once again oh new products these other things where like this company when we say do you need to grow if we define you as this product in this market in this company the answer might be no what we need to do is have a different product or in a different market or a different thing or you could change the word uh revenue if you say do you need to grow revenue you could change the word revenue and say you know But what we could do is maximize profit instead of revenue now.","startTime":4764.4,"endTime":4798.56,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"성장 정의 전환과 대안 제시가 탁월함."},{"segmentIndex":9,"text":"It might be, but I would submit that even at a bootstrap company that has other values and culture um other than growth at all costs that phrase is still fairly relevant because if the company's stagnant for years, is that a great environment for everyone as the founder?","startTime":4850.32,"endTime":4870.159,"durationSeconds":20,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"정체의 조직적 비용을 깊게 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":18,"text":"We've got in that mode for so long, like maybe our whole life that I was going to say lose sight of, but maybe we never had sight of, wait, does this make me happy?","startTime":4914.159,"endTime":4924.159,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"행복을 놓친 삶의 맹점을 찌름."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"But to get going, sure. So um sometimes we have this thing where we get going with maybe looser I don't want to say values I'm not saying it's unethical but like looser sort of bar or a pride that we have in our own work and we tighten it up as we're sort of able um as we can afford to you might even say so good but that's a then that becomes a nice filter here of like what is it in a greater sense I'm trying to do here I'm willing to do here.","startTime":5228.159,"endTime":5255.44,"durationSeconds":27,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"기준을 점진적으로 높이는 통찰 깊음."}],"generatedAt":"2026-06-25T00:36:59.095Z","keyClipsTotalSec":1412},{"videoId":"8xLquwfx6p0","chunkIndex":9,"totalChunks":11,"title":"The surprising advice from a founder who built 2 unicorns | Jason Cohen (WP Engine) — Part 10 of 11","thumbnail":"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8xLquwfx6p0/maxresdefault.jpg","duration":6364,"uploader":"Lenny's 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believer in saying not all important things are numbers I mean even things like how differentiated are we in the market not a number but it's very important so this might be one of those things that's important but not a number so okay can we get some proxy metrics even of behavior other things that's something um something better than some metric that's you know just operational and even if it's qualitative okay can we do that can we talk to customers and ask them qualitative questions to try to say like you know I would just say like do your best here because only when you generate more value for the customer you can then decide how to split that with the customer in terms of things like price you know right um but that's my um that's in fact how I think of it that very phrase how do we create more value for the customer and then split that with them and when you do that you're keeping the customer forefront in mind you are taking some like splitting means you get some like let's not 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leave.","startTime":5014.32,"endTime":5021.199,"durationSeconds":7,"level":"C1","overallScore":9.8,"rationale":"질문의 중요성과 행동 전환을 집약."},{"segmentIndex":69,"text":"But I've just more and more realized quality is actually the only thing that matters and the consistency doesn't matter.","startTime":467.36,"endTime":473.599,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.4,"rationale":"품질만 중요하단 강한 통찰 제시."},{"segmentIndex":85,"text":"Being famous is a mixed bag. Losing fame is miserable.","startTime":563.279,"endTime":569.12,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.6,"rationale":"명성과 상실의 대비가 강한 통찰."},{"segmentIndex":37,"text":"So there's a different metric that I like to use which is uh- which um which keys off of this idea that I think again people uh don't appreciate which is cancellations grow faster than marketing and so cancellations overpower the growth of the company and slow it to a halt i.e. growth slows right to where you literally cannot grow anymore.","startTime":848.56,"endTime":872.32,"durationSeconds":24,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"해지와 성장의 구조적 관계를 통찰함."},{"segmentIndex":46,"text":"Like so this is the point is that cancellations automatically grow as you grow. The point is that cancellation is this hard limit pulling you down with all these other really bad either implications or side effects which is why it's so important. Even if you're doing everything right, but marketing doesn't.","startTime":932.32,"endTime":938.16,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"해지의 본질과 함의를 압축해 설명."},{"segmentIndex":22,"text":"Complex systems do not have one root cause. They often have many interlocking things that could be done to detect earlier or to change it or to reduce or and not one root cause.","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1349.2,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"복합계 원인관의 핵심 통찰 문장."},{"segmentIndex":54,"text":"Now if you have a lot of data you can literally correlate signals with cancellation and try to extract that um you know precisely but even without data you can guess and guessing and having a theory acting accordingly and as you get more data adjusting your theory this is a wise way to proceed even without data.","startTime":1591.84,"endTime":1608.88,"durationSeconds":17,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"데이터 없는 실행 원칙까지 제시함."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"So that's a huge change. And so in the SAS equivalent is, as we all know, if they leave early, not only is it bad, but it's super unprofitable because you spent all this money to acquire them and then they never stayed around long enough to pay it back, much less to be profitable.","startTime":1713.52,"endTime":1726.32,"durationSeconds":13,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"초기 이탈의 경제성을 선명히 설명함."},{"segmentIndex":38,"text":"just what anybody does. So, it's what the good customers have in common that are different from what the bad customers have in common.","startTime":2050.96,"endTime":2054.56,"durationSeconds":4,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"차이 비교의 본질을 정확히 요약한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":48,"text":"So if I give double down 40k not five for the same product which is the leads are cheaper but then now the pitch is I doubled the leads for 40k instead of h instead of having the cost for 5k so double down gets 8x the money because it gets 40k for this product not eight not 5k for this product >> amazing story >> and everyone's happy because the CEO goes what did you do and they said like oh my god I doubled leads what yeah I mean at the same ROI as we had before, same CAC, I doubled leads.","startTime":2722.88,"endTime":2730.64,"durationSeconds":8,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"포지셔닝에 따른 가치 상승이 극명함."},{"segmentIndex":65,"text":"Um and the biggest takeaway here is when you say is pricing correct isn't like what is the number 20 or 25 or 100 it's almost is the market we are going after correct is the way we are selling to them correct is this price communicating the right sort of story and then also is the positioning of what problem we solve for you correct so there's a lot here and luckily I've done a bunch of episodes along this stuff which we'll point people to >> to go much deeper cuz This is a very >> this is a deep skill and there's a lot to do here.","startTime":2880.64,"endTime":2914.88,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"핵심 교훈 정리, 표현도 풍부함."},{"segmentIndex":71,"text":"So when you say like even when I just said raise prices or whatever um but you can't just raise prices like these new customers have different demands now maybe you need sock too now your other governance stuff matters now integrating to certain systems you didn't know about matters maybe now they need professional services like you can't just raise prices and change market and like that's 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they're both useful in fact but that's this is why they're both useful so NR of course is important a nice way to see this is it if all this is if everything I'm saying is true and there's these limits and stuff because of cancellation then there should be no way to get a big company like a public SAS company Unless NR is greater than 100, like otherwise cancellation should just win.","startTime":3325.68,"endTime":3359.2,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"N과 NR의 관계를 깊게 해석함."},{"segmentIndex":69,"text":"So, the idea here is and the classic advice is like not whether it's an S-curve or an Lin curve, think about are you starting to approach the apex of that and start to explore other channels before you slow down or start to dip.","startTime":4648.32,"endTime":4664.08,"durationSeconds":16,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"핵심 조언과 고급 구조가 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":84,"text":"Now of course you should know these kind of things with goals all the time but and again like obviously the answer could be once again oh new products these other things where like this company when we say do you need to grow if we define you as this product in this market in this company the answer might be no what we need to do is have a different product or in a different market or a different thing or you could change the word uh revenue if you say do you need to grow revenue you could change the word revenue and say you know But what we could do is maximize profit instead of revenue now.","startTime":4764.4,"endTime":4798.56,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"성장 정의 전환과 대안 제시가 탁월함."},{"segmentIndex":9,"text":"It might be, but I would submit that even at a bootstrap company that has other values and culture um other than growth at all costs that phrase is still fairly relevant because if the company's stagnant for years, is that a great environment for everyone as the founder?","startTime":4850.32,"endTime":4870.159,"durationSeconds":20,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"정체의 조직적 비용을 깊게 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":18,"text":"We've got in that mode for so long, like maybe our whole life that I was going to say lose sight of, but maybe we never had sight of, wait, does this make me happy?","startTime":4914.159,"endTime":4924.159,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"행복을 놓친 삶의 맹점을 찌름."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"But to get going, sure. So um sometimes we have this thing where we get going with maybe looser I don't want to say values I'm not saying it's unethical but like looser sort of bar or a pride that we have in our own work and we tighten it up as we're sort of able um as we can afford to you might even say so good but that's a then that becomes a nice filter here of like what is it in a greater sense I'm trying to do here I'm willing to do here.","startTime":5228.159,"endTime":5255.44,"durationSeconds":27,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"기준을 점진적으로 높이는 통찰 깊음."}],"generatedAt":"2026-06-25T00:37:15.801Z","keyClipsTotalSec":1412},{"videoId":"8xLquwfx6p0","chunkIndex":10,"totalChunks":11,"title":"The surprising advice from a founder who built 2 unicorns | Jason Cohen (WP Engine) — Part 11 of 11","thumbnail":"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8xLquwfx6p0/maxresdefault.jpg","duration":6364,"uploader":"Lenny's Podcast","youtubeUrl":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xLquwfx6p0","keywords":["leadership","entrepreneurship","writing","productivity","tools","startup","career","self-improvement","personal-branding"],"normalizedKeywords":["리더십·매니지먼트","비즈니스·전략","커리어·성장"],"targetAudience":[{"who":"창업자","why":"회사의 문화와 리더십이 장기 성과에 어떻게 연결되는지 볼 수 있음"},{"who":"크리에이터","why":"자기만의 목소리와 무료 콘텐츠의 가치에 대한 관점을 얻을 수 있음"},{"who":"지식노동자","why":"작업 도구, 글쓰기, 자기 정체성에 대한 실용적 힌트가 많음"}],"normalizedAudience":["창업자·스타트업","크리에이터·작가","지식노동자 일반"],"summary":"이 구간은 인터뷰의 마무리 파트로, 제이슨 코헨이 최근 좋아하는 제품과 자신의 삶의 원칙, 그리고 WP Engine에서의 경험을 짧게 나눈다. WhisperFlow 같은 дик테이션 도구와 Anker 충전기처럼 실제로 자주 쓰는 제품을 추천하면서, 좋은 도구는 일을 더 빠르고 편하게 만들어준다고 말한다. 이어서 \"Be yourself. Everyone else is taken.\"이라는 모토를 통해 온라인에서 남을 따라하기보다 자기다움을 유지하는 게 더 중요하다고 강조한다.\n\n마지막으로 그는 WP Engine CEO 헤더 브루너가 회사에 끼친 영향이 워낙 커서 사실상 '늦게 합류한 공동 창업자'처럼 느껴진다고 설명한다. 또 자신의 책 Hidden Multipliers와 무료 아티클들을 소개하며, 독자가 책을 사는 것이 그동안의 무료 콘텐츠에 대한 보답이 될 수 있다고 가볍게 청한다.","insights":["좋은 도구는 생산성을 '의지'가 아니라 '구조'로 올린다.","남을 닮으려 할수록 차별점은 사라지고 팬도 줄어든다.","사람의 영향력이 크면 합류 시점보다 기여가 더 중요하다.","무료로 많이 주면, 유료는 신뢰를 돌려받는 방식이 된다."],"keyClips":[{"clipId":"8xLquwfx6p0:c10:13-28","startSegmentIndex":13,"endSegmentIndex":28,"startTime":6073.52,"endTime":6148.08,"durationSeconds":74.6,"preview":"좋은 도구의 기준","mustSee":false},{"clipId":"8xLquwfx6p0:c10:29-34","startSegmentIndex":29,"endSegmentIndex":34,"startTime":6148.08,"endTime":6194.159,"durationSeconds":46.1,"preview":"자기다움이 경쟁력","mustSee":false},{"clipId":"8xLquwfx6p0:c10:35-43","startSegmentIndex":35,"endSegmentIndex":43,"startTime":6194.159,"endTime":6269.28,"durationSeconds":75.1,"preview":"공동창업자 같은 리더","mustSee":false},{"clipId":"8xLquwfx6p0:c10:45-52","startSegmentIndex":45,"endSegmentIndex":52,"startTime":6274.96,"endTime":6326.56,"durationSeconds":51.6,"preview":"무료와 유료의 균형","mustSee":false}],"curatedSegments":[{"segmentIndex":72,"text":"they're part of the you know um and I'm a big believer in saying not all important things are numbers I mean even things like how differentiated are we in the market not a number but it's very important so this might be one of those things that's important but not a number so okay can we get some proxy metrics even of behavior other things that's something um something better than some metric that's you know just operational and even if it's qualitative okay can we do that can we talk to customers and ask them qualitative questions to try to say like you know I would just say like do your best here because only when you generate more value for the customer you can then decide how to split that with the customer in terms of things like price you know right um but that's my um that's in fact how I think of it that very phrase how do we create more value for the customer and then split that with them and when you do that you're keeping the customer forefront in mind you are taking some like splitting means you get some like let's not forget it's not a charity and on the other hand first we should think how are we generating value for customers and then think and then we can take a little we've now earned the ability to take a little piece of that","startTime":3530.16,"endTime":3540.16,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":10,"rationale":"가치·가격 원칙과 표현이 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":32,"text":"So you again I don't mean to overstate this and I certainly don't mean to claim that there's some answer that's right for everybody of course but surely this is the right kind of question and surely for many people who are listening to this the answer is yeah I mean in some sense some very rough sense that's probably right for me and so if I'm in a stagnant situation and really every other option has been exhausted and isn't going to happen this is simply a stagnant thing maybe there's something else needs to happen I need to leave.","startTime":5014.32,"endTime":5021.199,"durationSeconds":7,"level":"C1","overallScore":9.8,"rationale":"질문의 중요성과 행동 전환을 집약."},{"segmentIndex":69,"text":"But I've just more and more realized quality is actually the only thing that matters and the consistency doesn't matter.","startTime":467.36,"endTime":473.599,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.4,"rationale":"품질만 중요하단 강한 통찰 제시."},{"segmentIndex":85,"text":"Being famous is a mixed bag. Losing fame is miserable.","startTime":563.279,"endTime":569.12,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.6,"rationale":"명성과 상실의 대비가 강한 통찰."},{"segmentIndex":37,"text":"So there's a different metric that I like to use which is uh- which um which keys off of this idea that I think again people uh don't appreciate which is cancellations grow faster than marketing and so cancellations overpower the growth of the company and slow it to a halt i.e. growth slows right to where you literally cannot grow anymore.","startTime":848.56,"endTime":872.32,"durationSeconds":24,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"해지와 성장의 구조적 관계를 통찰함."},{"segmentIndex":46,"text":"Like so this is the point is that cancellations automatically grow as you grow. The point is that cancellation is this hard limit pulling you down with all these other really bad either implications or side effects which is why it's so important. Even if you're doing everything right, but marketing doesn't.","startTime":932.32,"endTime":938.16,"durationSeconds":6,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"해지의 본질과 함의를 압축해 설명."},{"segmentIndex":22,"text":"Complex systems do not have one root cause. They often have many interlocking things that could be done to detect earlier or to change it or to reduce or and not one root cause.","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1349.2,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"복합계 원인관의 핵심 통찰 문장."},{"segmentIndex":54,"text":"Now if you have a lot of data you can literally correlate signals with cancellation and try to extract that um you know precisely but even without data you can guess and guessing and having a theory acting accordingly and as you get more data adjusting your theory this is a wise way to proceed even without data.","startTime":1591.84,"endTime":1608.88,"durationSeconds":17,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"데이터 없는 실행 원칙까지 제시함."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"So that's a huge change. And so in the SAS equivalent is, as we all know, if they leave early, not only is it bad, but it's super unprofitable because you spent all this money to acquire them and then they never stayed around long enough to pay it back, much less to be profitable.","startTime":1713.52,"endTime":1726.32,"durationSeconds":13,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"초기 이탈의 경제성을 선명히 설명함."},{"segmentIndex":38,"text":"just what anybody does. So, it's what the good customers have in common that are different from what the bad customers have in common.","startTime":2050.96,"endTime":2054.56,"durationSeconds":4,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"차이 비교의 본질을 정확히 요약한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":48,"text":"So if I give double down 40k not five for the same product which is the leads are cheaper but then now the pitch is I doubled the leads for 40k instead of h instead of having the cost for 5k so double down gets 8x the money because it gets 40k for this product not eight not 5k for this product >> amazing story >> and everyone's happy because the CEO goes what did you do and they said like oh my god I doubled leads what yeah I mean at the same ROI as we had before, same CAC, I doubled leads.","startTime":2722.88,"endTime":2730.64,"durationSeconds":8,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"포지셔닝에 따른 가치 상승이 극명함."},{"segmentIndex":65,"text":"Um and the biggest takeaway here is when you say is pricing correct isn't like what is the number 20 or 25 or 100 it's almost is the market we are going after correct is the way we are selling to them correct is this price communicating the right sort of story and then also is the positioning of what problem we solve for you correct so there's a lot here and luckily I've done a bunch of episodes along this stuff which we'll point people to >> to go much deeper cuz This is a very >> this is a deep skill and there's a lot to do here.","startTime":2880.64,"endTime":2914.88,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"핵심 교훈 정리, 표현도 풍부함."},{"segmentIndex":71,"text":"So when you say like even when I just said raise prices or whatever um but you can't just raise prices like these new customers have different demands now maybe you need sock too now your other governance stuff matters now integrating to certain systems you didn't know about matters maybe now they need professional services like you can't just raise prices and change market and like that's it and maybe that's wise to do but maybe it's not maybe you realize that sure, of course, that other market has certain advantages, but they also have disadvantages, and we don't want those either because we'll no longer be competitive because the way that we're distinguished, competitive, special,","startTime":2960.88,"endTime":2970.88,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"가격 인상과 시장 변화의 함정 설명."},{"segmentIndex":33,"text":"And the way that's computed is you say what is the revenue of customers right now like so existing customers existing whatever just the whole total and then one year from now what of that remains so not new customers coming in not talking about them because we're asking about the cohort that exists what remains so with cancels it goes down with downgrades it goes down but with upgrades it goes up so when I say remains it could end higher than we started if upgrades exceed cancellations and downgrades and now we are talking about MR and not N because N doesn't have this N doesn't have an upgrade and just only goes down which again is why I think the N is actually the most important one because think about it like a lot of times people think so if you've heard of NR you might think well that's my golden metric I'm done but the issue is if NR is positive but N goes down too fast it doesn't matter because not enough people are left and so there's not enough people left over to upgrade and so actually you're wrong and so NR does not include that and therefore it actually underounts what's going on in a bad way like in a way that's that hurts you.","startTime":3196.64,"endTime":3267.599,"durationSeconds":71,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"NRR 계산과 한계를 깊게 풀어줌."},{"segmentIndex":45,"text":"saying you got to lo track it like it's good just in the back of your mind realize it's not quite that good and looking at N helps me keep keeps you honest about what's really going on with these customer cohorts right so that's why they're both useful in fact but that's this is why they're both useful so NR of course is important a nice way to see this is it if all this is if everything I'm saying is true and there's these limits and stuff because of cancellation then there should be no way to get a big company like a public SAS company Unless NR is greater than 100, like otherwise cancellation should just win.","startTime":3325.68,"endTime":3359.2,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"N과 NR의 관계를 깊게 해석함."},{"segmentIndex":69,"text":"So, the idea here is and the classic advice is like not whether it's an S-curve or an Lin curve, think about are you starting to approach the apex of that and start to explore other channels before you slow down or start to dip.","startTime":4648.32,"endTime":4664.08,"durationSeconds":16,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"핵심 조언과 고급 구조가 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":84,"text":"Now of course you should know these kind of things with goals all the time but and again like obviously the answer could be once again oh new products these other things where like this company when we say do you need to grow if we define you as this product in this market in this company the answer might be no what we need to do is have a different product or in a different market or a different thing or you could change the word uh revenue if you say do you need to grow revenue you could change the word revenue and say you know But what we could do is maximize profit instead of revenue now.","startTime":4764.4,"endTime":4798.56,"durationSeconds":34,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"성장 정의 전환과 대안 제시가 탁월함."},{"segmentIndex":9,"text":"It might be, but I would submit that even at a bootstrap company that has other values and culture um other than growth at all costs that phrase is still fairly relevant because if the company's stagnant for years, is that a great environment for everyone as the founder?","startTime":4850.32,"endTime":4870.159,"durationSeconds":20,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"정체의 조직적 비용을 깊게 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":18,"text":"We've got in that mode for so long, like maybe our whole life that I was going to say lose sight of, but maybe we never had sight of, wait, does this make me happy?","startTime":4914.159,"endTime":4924.159,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"행복을 놓친 삶의 맹점을 찌름."},{"segmentIndex":67,"text":"But to get going, sure. 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