{"success":true,"count":7,"items":[{"videoId":"LvOYXKAyAqs","chunkIndex":0,"totalChunks":7,"title":"How Harness runs 16 “startups within a startup” at scale | Jyoti Bansal (Co-founder and CEO) — Part 1 of 7","thumbnail":"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LvOYXKAyAqs/maxresdefault.jpg","duration":3917,"uploader":"First Round Capital","youtubeUrl":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvOYXKAyAqs","keywords":["startup","enterprise-software","go-to-market","sales","product-strategy","founder-led-sales","product-market-fit","business-strategy","b2b","scaling"],"normalizedKeywords":["비즈니스·전략","프로덕트","마케팅"],"targetAudience":[{"who":"초기 창업자","why":"제품만큼 판매 방식과 시장 선택을 처음부터 설계해야 함을 배울 수 있음"},{"who":"B2B 프로덕트 담당자","why":"엔터프라이즈와 미드마켓의 제품 요건 차이를 이해하는 데 도움됨"},{"who":"세일즈 리더","why":"고객 유형에 따라 세일즈 모션과 조직 구조가 어떻게 달라지는지 볼 수 있음"}],"normalizedAudience":["창업자·스타트업","프로덕트 매니저·기획자"],"summary":"이 영상은 하네스의 창업자 Jyoti Bansal이 '좋은 제품이면 팔린다'는 생각에서 벗어나, 제품과 판매 방식은 함께 설계돼야 한다는 관점을 설명한다. 그는 미드마켓과 엔터프라이즈는 필요한 기능, 세일즈 방식, 조직 문화, 재무 구조가 다르기 때문에 한쪽에 최적화된 회사가 다른 쪽으로 쉽게 이동할 수 없다고 말한다. 그래서 하네스는 처음부터 두 시장을 모두 염두에 두되, 실제로는 미드마켓 고객으로 제품을 성숙시키고 엔터프라이즈 대화를 병행하는 전략을 택했다.\n\n또한 그는 초대형 고객을 얻는 것만이 항상 이득은 아니며, 특정 대형 고객 하나가 엔지니어링 로드맵을 독점하면 다른 고객을 제대로 지원할 수 없다고 말한다. 마지막으로 그는 PMF만이 아니라 'product-market-sales fit'을 생각해야 하며, 어떤 방식으로 팔지에 따라 제품 설계 자체가 달라져야 한다는 점을 강조한다.","insights":["제품과 판매 방식은 분리해서 설계할 수 없다.","미드마켓과 엔터프라이즈는 조직의 근육이 다르다.","대형 고객 한 명이 제품 로드맵을 독점하면 위험하다.","좋은 고객이 아니라 반복 가능한 사용 사례가 중요하다.","PMF만큼 중요한 것은 판매 가능성까지 포함한 적합성이다."],"keyClips":[{"clipId":"LvOYXKAyAqs:c0:1-2","startSegmentIndex":1,"endSegmentIndex":2,"startTime":1.59,"endTime":8.4,"durationSeconds":6.8,"preview":"판매가 제품을 바꾼다","mustSee":true},{"clipId":"LvOYXKAyAqs:c0:8-14","startSegmentIndex":8,"endSegmentIndex":14,"startTime":50.079,"endTime":88.08,"durationSeconds":38,"preview":"GTM을 뒤늦게 배웠다","mustSee":false},{"clipId":"LvOYXKAyAqs:c0:15-24","startSegmentIndex":15,"endSegmentIndex":24,"startTime":88.08,"endTime":225.28,"durationSeconds":137.2,"preview":"시장별로 게임이 다르다","mustSee":true},{"clipId":"LvOYXKAyAqs:c0:25-31","startSegmentIndex":25,"endSegmentIndex":31,"startTime":225.28,"endTime":296.639,"durationSeconds":71.4,"preview":"두 시장을 함께 설계","mustSee":false},{"clipId":"LvOYXKAyAqs:c0:34-38","startSegmentIndex":34,"endSegmentIndex":38,"startTime":309.52,"endTime":399.68,"durationSeconds":90.2,"preview":"먼저 미드마켓으로 검증","mustSee":true},{"clipId":"LvOYXKAyAqs:c0:43-49","startSegmentIndex":43,"endSegmentIndex":49,"startTime":472,"endTime":546.399,"durationSeconds":74.4,"preview":"좋은 고객도 놓아야 한다","mustSee":false},{"clipId":"LvOYXKAyAqs:c0:50-52","startSegmentIndex":50,"endSegmentIndex":52,"startTime":546.399,"endTime":568.64,"durationSeconds":22.2,"preview":"판매가 설계를 정한다","mustSee":false}],"curatedSegments":[{"segmentIndex":52,"text":"I sometimes I say you should think a product market sales fit which is if you design a product that and you know which is like what problem you're solving what is your solution that's a product market fit but if you have not figured out how to sell it will eventually you have to may have to redesign the product if you're going to sell it to enterprise or win market you're going to sell it through PLG or you're going to sell it through salesled how you design the product is very dependent on how you're going to sell it so if you don't think about it like the product is solving the problems your go to market is going to PLG and you didn't really design for that experience that's going not going to work you know you're going to sell into large enterprise and you didn't design it properly so to me figuring out what the go to market would be is very key you have to iterate through that","startTime":558.64,"endTime":568.64,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":10,"rationale":"판매방식과 제품설계 연결 통찰이 큼."},{"segmentIndex":4,"text":">> If someone asked me as a second time founder, what you learn? I said the main thing is to not go in the assumptions that what worked the first time will always work the second time.","startTime":20.56,"endTime":27.76,"durationSeconds":7,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.6,"rationale":"재창업 교훈이 분명한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":23,"text":"Now if now you are want to change to something else or build something in parallel that's just organizationally hard you know so that's the one part that I see like you know you build all the machine around it's mostly marketing heavy mostly PLG you have like cheaper younger inside sales people enterprise will be more salesled you know you have partners and channels and expensive enterprise sales people longer sales cycle so there's a shift in how the financial planning will happen in your company and would the CFO will on board with it.","startTime":134.8,"endTime":165.44,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"조직·재무 전환 통찰이 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":24,"text":"The sales people what you celebrated before how the product managers work with go to market those just a you know company's DNA get created over time the second is the product you know the products are that are designed for mid-market and products that are designed for enterprise have certain differences in enterprise you need a high you want lots of capabilities and lots of flexibility could become a complex user experience in midm market so What's your strength in enterprise could become your weakness in there verse also applies like you know in enter in mid-market you designed a simple product with less capabilities but now it doesn't work and do the things in enterprise so it's possible to do both you know it's possible to do both but you have to design the products in the right kind of way where you kind of remove the things that are not needed in market you price it in a certain way uh but it's just hard like enter for enterprise focused companies to go mid-market is also hard >> I mean you very rarely see a company that's dominating that begins by dominating enterp enterprise be able to go down market.","startTime":165.44,"endTime":225.28,"durationSeconds":60,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"제품-시장 차이 통찰이 매우 큼."},{"segmentIndex":28,"text":"one reason is I don't want the mid-market companies to come in enterprise at some point in future you know and compete with us there second is I do think that designing the simplicity of the experience helps an enterprise as well because if you want to do your you know even enterprises you would still do some PLG you still want you know people to get going you know even someone who's already bought your product for them to adopt you still want the simplicity and the virality that comes from it there's an advantage of like you know as an enterprise focused company also to not completely let go of like you know okay we are so heavyweight and so complicated.","startTime":249.28,"endTime":279.84000000000003,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"단순성 전략의 이유를 깊게 설명."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"the just the engineering time like I couldn't get anything done else done in the engineering road map like we at that time like you know we had 200 customers and uh you know the they all have requirements and things and feature requests and things that they want and then we had Netflix's number one customer they have a lot of requirements and things that we have to do at some point it became it was only for them in our case at that time and that's where it was clear like you know I cannot serve the other customers like it's just very hard choice to make that we just cannot serve other customers so supporting that one customer which was such a great customer to have and to have to lose them after 3 years uh was a painful choice to make.","startTime":510.639,"endTime":546.399,"durationSeconds":36,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"고객 집중의 비용을 구체적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"So now at some point you can predict like based on the how many leads you know that what you're going to close in 6 months because you know this is your sales cycle you can start planning your business in terms of how many sellers you're going to new sellers you will hire how long it takes them to ramp how many you what's the sales capacity that comes from it what's the demand generation capacity that comes from it so then you know like you know okay we want to go from 50 to 100 you know what you need otherwise if you are like I we're going to go to 50 to 100 we have this many sellers today and you know we're going to close business in these accounts and deals that doesn't work like to me it's like a scaled sales organization is when you're not talking about deals you're talking about capacity like you know the deals will happen like you know we have the right capacity when you say okay I have 20 million a quarter of ramped sales capacity so I know like I'm going to close you know 90% business of that roughly 18 million without even thinking of what deals you have for the 18 million then you have you know your predictable system of course at the end of the day you have some deals you have to close but you can get to a point where you know you don't need to think about what deal what not, right?","startTime":672.16,"endTime":733.519,"durationSeconds":61,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"스케일드 영업 정의가 매우 선명함."},{"segmentIndex":16,"text":"I the first question I asked him okay how many happy successful customers you have and it's like we don't really have any happy successful customers or we have like three or four or five product is not ready yet to for go to market to really scale on it that's where I look at like you know many time that is the founder le sales job is to deliver not just the first 25 customers but also the first 25 success stories or like the successful outcomes that come out of it >> a lot of the product maturity happens in that process not in the selling process is the delivering the value in the into those.","startTime":797.2,"endTime":828.48,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"초기 창업자 역할과 기준을 잘 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":20,"text":"In harness we run a very structured sales process where we will create a assessment before we sell which is this is the value you're going to get like you know if you buy harness and use using harness for continuous delivery you know your deployments like we do an assessment of like right now you're deploying once in two weeks you can become once a day your engineers spend this much time per deployment like you know 6 hours per deployment that can come down to 30 minutes per deployment you know your failure rate is this much today you know of 20% deployment failure rate we can bring it down to 4%, you define the outcomes in the sales process and then you know after the you know once you sell it we work with the customer on have you achieved those outcomes and have you if you not achieved those outcomes you haven't delivered the value that we promised even if you're not that structured around it I really think like the happy successful customer definition is very simple is have they achieved the value outcome they thought when they bought it and if they have then they most customers are happy if that happens in the case of harness when you think about building out the early goto market team.","startTime":870.639,"endTime":932.079,"durationSeconds":61,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"가치 약속-검증 프로세스가 매우 구체적."},{"segmentIndex":27,"text":"And so that's what I did like and I was able to attract a VP of sales you know at that time and then the VP of sales brought in started to build it out and all that at harness actually I did decide that I know now it's like I at dynamics I work with sales people all the time I know enterprise software sales and all that so I had enough skills that you know and I could attract a head of sales very easily and harness but I actually wanted to have a couple of reps just work with me initially I felt like I need to be close very close to the customers in that I was still like in the transition from founder le sales very early on at harness to me it was very clear that I need to be you know the second time founder I was a bit paranoid about that I don't want to be too far removed at app dynamics right before I was leading a org of like thousand people as was my last job there as a CEO and now you come in and like just completely on the ground at five people and that's a shift and then you you're you may get into like okay I need these layers of people to do things and I was very paranoid about not doing that I need to go on the ground and not bring layers so actually harness I initially didn't hire until the first million I didn't hire air of sales and uh I said okay I'll just hire a few reps I know how to manage them I know how to interview them I know what to do there one of the big points I think you're trying to make is that the way the product is delivered and the way the product is built is one and the same and they have to go together and so when you're selling it and you're close to the customer and you're building the product you have a very tight feedback loop between those >> very fast and kind of >> when you do think about hiring your first head of sales do you think there's some special things you're looking for in your first head of sales that's different than an excellent atscale sales leader or a great head of sales can go from 1 to 50 million or 50 to 500 or sort of that type of thing.","startTime":1019.36,"endTime":1121.2,"durationSeconds":102,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"창업자 영업과 피드백 루프 통찰 탁월."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"The second part after that is which is kind of tied to recruiting is the enablement like if you bring people in can you understand like what it takes to enable people well the value of that like the ramping the people if you don't enable them well good people are not going to make money and if they're not going to make money they will leave and now you have like you know you don't have the sales capacity that you need then the third is a disciplined sales process like the sales process is not very loose and how you generate you know pipeline how do you evaluate every part of where you are in the deal how do you look for like what is the right pain.","startTime":1240.48,"endTime":1271.6,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"채용·온보딩 원리를 구체적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":8,"text":"So you can have you know there are many frameworks around a structured sales process but you want someone who believes in it and who can run that in a disciplined way otherwise the predictability of the business goes away like a sales rep comes to you and we are doing this P and the things are going very well suddenly oh we lost a deal it's like why did we lost a deal because there was another person who was pitching for competitor we didn't know about that is a bad sales process like in a structured sales process you will try to find that early on you'll try to build the right you know champions in the found so you don't have surprises.","startTime":1271.6,"endTime":1302.72,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"구조적 세일즈 프로세스의 가치가 뚜렷함."},{"segmentIndex":12,"text":"If life I interview a sales person and they're not very clear if I ask them normally okay how did you perform on your targets in the last 10 years and they don't know it easily best people will have in their resumes even like you know 2020 I achieved 110% of my kota 21 I achieved 109% of my kota 23 I did this whatever right the reason I like that is like you know not just because they achieved more but because they are anchored as a measure of success around that like do they take pride in it and do they consider that you know you want to achieve your goals and targets is uh is the thing you take pride in. people who don't like you and you ask them okay how did you do and they all start speaking like in abstract terms I know like I want a saleserson and say I achieved 100% of my target or 70% of my target for these reasons or but someone who doesn't even know their target or talk about that is normally a bad sign what I've seen is like the you recruit very well and you are almost like obsessed with the talent that you can recruit you enable them well you know enable could be at the rep level enable could be at the manager level at the leader level as the or grows you know you run a tight disciplined sales process and you take, you know, extreme ownership of the number and you kind of drive that ownership of the number across the org.","startTime":1324.32,"endTime":1392.24,"durationSeconds":68,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"채용 기준과 성과 태도를 촘촘히 설명."},{"segmentIndex":37,"text":"enterprise infrastructure you're selling to IT and technical people and the third would be the hardware oriented things like firewalls and all that and I do care about that you have like when I'm selling an enterprise infrastructure I've seen like yes people coming from business applications can succeed but there's a risk there people coming from hardware selling can succeed but there's a risk there these three buckets are broad enough like I don't need to be like an infrastructure software that someone has sold a CI/CD product doesn't matter to me like if they have sold anything infrastructure software that's good enough like they know how to sell to IT and how to sell to infrastructure people and technical people and developers and all that you know that's normally I would look at I do look at SMB versus enterprise for sure the people who are only experienced in enterprise selling and you want to sell to SMB they will struggle and same with like the people who only sell SMB they will struggle so that you definitely want like if you want your business enterprise selling you need someone who has experience enterprise selling have you noticed any patterns in hiring go to market people from like the third best company in the category versus the first Do you like the people that worked at the premium company in the category?","startTime":1547.44,"endTime":1609.919,"durationSeconds":62,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"세일즈 경험 적합성을 체계적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":41,"text":"Normally what happens is like the number one company is number one not just because they have great product but because they also have a very strong sales uh culture and DNA most of the time you do want someone who is like spend so they know what good sales culture and good sales discipline means I'm not biased against number one company because of that if someone is on number three company and they've done well because the product was not very good and they've sold it there is value to it I would rather take someone who's coming from a highly disciplined and sales culture because then you don't have to teach them that cuz they already know they have spent like 3 years, 5 years, 7 years in that highly disciplined sales culture.","startTime":1634.08,"endTime":1671.44,"durationSeconds":37,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"상위 회사 출신 선호 이유를 논리적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"I studied computer science you know became software engineer then you know when you start as an entrepreneur it's you have to hone it you have to put your energy into it many times like you know software engineers come to me it's like hey you became from engineer to entrepreneur what skillsh you had to learn tell them you really need three skills there's the technical skills don't underestimate and forget that because that is your strength there's the people skills because you cannot build anything of size without you know alone and third is the business skills technical skills are your core So you have to make sure you don't lose your core power but you have to put deliberate energy in the other two skills which is the people and the business.","startTime":1731.919,"endTime":1768.88,"durationSeconds":37,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"창업가 핵심 역량을 명확히 구조화함."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"So you become much more revenue oriented and that was very key like you know just because that's was the only way to come out of it like and it was no easy path other than revenue there was no next round I could raise without it I think maybe that was it like you know you force yourself to do it like you know you found you find revenue find your way to learn how to get to revenue it's very simple like I tell everyone is like the only lifeblood of any company is revenue it's like if revenue is there most things will kind of you'll figure out and if not and if of you'll figure out and if not they won't >> you can build the best product everything have the best everything is if the revenue is not there ultimately you need the revenues.","startTime":1860.799,"endTime":1927.2,"durationSeconds":66,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"매출의 본질을 강하게 일반화함."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"you know so we there but the other part of the variable was also like you know I would say not the best investor board dynamic and that makes a creates execution uncertainty on what will happen in the future like you know what we'll do so that was a factor in there as well so when I also learned the lessons from the first company to second company to me that's very important as well like you know you got to make the right aligned set of investors and board like at harness we have this vision for building it for the a platform for the long term but if I have investors who don't want to do that for the long term who want to do in different vision for what the company should be then you're kind of misaligned and that creates a big execution and uncertainty and risk.","startTime":2318.64,"endTime":2353.92,"durationSeconds":35,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"투자자 정렬의 중요성을 깊게 설명함."},{"segmentIndex":5,"text":"One is are they investing because they believe in the vision and they believe in the founder or they investing for FOMO because you know half of them are of the investors are just oh this is a hot deal I need to chase it and they don't really fundamentally believe in the problem or you that's one thing I say like how do you figure that out you know in the process like how much someone who's coming who's want to invest how much conviction they have like do they have a point of view of why they want to invest in not just because you're suddenly a hot deal and that's why they want to invest that definitely is one but I also look that do the reference checks and all on how they would behave in hard situations like you know how what's their belief in like the role of a the founder and a board member like you know it's the where the boundaries are like that's what I ask you know if a founder friend comes to me on uh look at that like you know and track look at the track records you know there's the talk to other former entrepreneurs they have invested in it's important like you know if it's because you're going to be working with them for a long time right >> it's easier to get a divorce than it is to get someone off your board.","startTime":2456.319,"endTime":2515.68,"durationSeconds":59,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"투자자 선별 조언과 표현이 풍부함."},{"segmentIndex":19,"text":"But kind of chasing competitors and being too obsessed by chasing them can you can just go into one direction to another to this and that and not really the lens of revenue and customer value delivery works much simpler because you could be very focused with that on like you know we need to drive this much 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Capital","youtubeUrl":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvOYXKAyAqs","keywords":["startup","sales","go-to-market","product-market-fit","enterprise-software","revenue-growth","leadership","business-strategy"],"normalizedKeywords":["비즈니스·전략","리더십·매니지먼트","프로덕트"],"targetAudience":[{"who":"초기 창업자","why":"초기 세일즈와 제품-시장 적합성을 어떻게 같이 검증할지 배울 수 있음"},{"who":"세일즈 리더","why":"1→50, 50→500 성장 단계별로 필요한 조직 설계를 이해할 수 있음"},{"who":"B2B 창업팀","why":"고객 가치 검증과 판매 확장을 분리해 보는 기준이 유용함"}],"normalizedAudience":["창업자·스타트업","프로덕트 매니저·기획자"],"summary":"이 영상은 하니스(Harness)가 어떻게 세일즈와 제품을 함께 정교화하며, '스타트업 안의 스타트업'을 여러 개 운영하듯 조직을 확장하는지에 대한 관점을 다룬다. 핵심은 좋은 제품을 만드는 것만으로는 부족하고, 판매 가능한 형태로 제품을 다듬어야 하며, 이를 위해선 반복 가능하고 예측 가능한 go-to-market 머신을 구축해야 한다는 점이다. 또한 성장이 막힐 때는 먼저 '팔렸는가'가 아니라 '고객이 실제 가치를 얻었는가'를 봐야 하며, 행복한 고객이 충분하지 않다면 대개 문제는 세일즈가 아니라 제품이라고 주장한다.\n\n후반부에서는 초기 세일즈 채용 전략에 대해 말한다. 창업 초기에 세일즈 경험이 부족하다면 무리하게 직접 배우기보다, 가능한 한 시니어한 세일즈 리더를 영입하는 것이 리스크를 줄인다고 조언한다. 다만 첫 번째 head of sales는 너무 거대한 조직 출신보다 고객과 가까운 역할을 최근까지 해본 사람을 찾는 것이 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스펙","mustSee":false}],"curatedSegments":[{"segmentIndex":52,"text":"I sometimes I say you should think a product market sales fit which is if you design a product that and you know which is like what problem you're solving what is your solution that's a product market fit but if you have not figured out how to sell it will eventually you have to may have to redesign the product if you're going to sell it to enterprise or win market you're going to sell it through PLG or you're going to sell it through salesled how you design the product is very dependent on how you're going to sell it so if you don't think about it like the product is solving the problems your go to market is going to PLG and you didn't really design for that experience that's going not going to work you know you're going to sell into large enterprise and you didn't design it properly so to me figuring out what the go to market would be is very key you have to iterate through 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I said the main thing is to not go in the assumptions that what worked the first time will always work the second time.","startTime":20.56,"endTime":27.76,"durationSeconds":7,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.6,"rationale":"재창업 교훈이 분명한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":23,"text":"Now if now you are want to change to something else or build something in parallel that's just organizationally hard you know so that's the one part that I see like you know you build all the machine around it's mostly marketing heavy mostly PLG you have like cheaper younger inside sales people enterprise will be more salesled you know you have partners and channels and expensive enterprise sales people longer sales cycle so there's a shift in how the financial planning will happen in your company and would the CFO will on board with it.","startTime":134.8,"endTime":165.44,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"조직·재무 전환 통찰이 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":24,"text":"The sales people what you celebrated before how the product managers work with go to market those just a you know company's DNA get created over time the second is the product you know the products are that are designed for mid-market and products that are designed for enterprise have certain differences in enterprise you need a high you want lots of capabilities and lots of flexibility could become a complex user experience in midm market so What's your strength in enterprise could become your weakness in there verse also applies like you know in enter in mid-market you designed a simple product with less capabilities but now it doesn't work and do the things in enterprise so it's possible to do both you know it's possible to do both but you have to design the products in the right kind of way where you kind of remove the things that are not needed in market you price it in a certain way uh but it's just hard like enter for enterprise focused companies to go mid-market is also hard >> I mean you very rarely see a company that's dominating that begins by dominating enterp enterprise be able to go down market.","startTime":165.44,"endTime":225.28,"durationSeconds":60,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"제품-시장 차이 통찰이 매우 큼."},{"segmentIndex":28,"text":"one reason is I don't want the mid-market companies to come in enterprise at some point in future you know and compete with us there second is I do think that designing the simplicity of the experience helps an enterprise as well because if you want to do your you know even enterprises you would still do some PLG you still want you know people to get going you know even someone who's already bought your product for them to adopt you still want the simplicity and the virality that comes from it there's an advantage of like you know as an enterprise focused company also to not completely let go of like you know okay we are so heavyweight and so 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make.","startTime":510.639,"endTime":546.399,"durationSeconds":36,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"고객 집중의 비용을 구체적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"So now at some point you can predict like based on the how many leads you know that what you're going to close in 6 months because you know this is your sales cycle you can start planning your business in terms of how many sellers you're going to new sellers you will hire how long it takes them to ramp how many you what's the sales capacity that comes from it what's the demand generation capacity that comes from it so then you know like you know okay we want to go from 50 to 100 you know what you need otherwise if you are like I we're going to go to 50 to 100 we have this many sellers today and you know we're going to close business in these accounts and deals that doesn't work like to me it's like a scaled sales organization is when you're not talking about deals you're talking about capacity like you know the deals will happen like you know we have the right capacity when you say okay I have 20 million a quarter of ramped sales capacity so I know like I'm going to close you know 90% business of that roughly 18 million without even thinking of what deals you have for the 18 million then you have you know your predictable system of course at the end of the day you have some deals you have to close but you can get to a point where you know you don't need to think about what deal what not, right?","startTime":672.16,"endTime":733.519,"durationSeconds":61,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"스케일드 영업 정의가 매우 선명함."},{"segmentIndex":16,"text":"I the first question I asked him okay how many happy successful customers you have and it's like we don't really have any happy successful customers or we have like three or four or five product is not ready yet to for go to market to really scale on it that's where I look at like you know many time that is the founder le sales job is to deliver not just the first 25 customers but also the first 25 success stories or like the successful outcomes that come out of it >> a lot of the product maturity happens in that process not in the selling process is the delivering the value in the into those.","startTime":797.2,"endTime":828.48,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"초기 창업자 역할과 기준을 잘 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":20,"text":"In harness we run a very structured sales process where we will create a assessment before we sell which is this is the value you're going to get like you know if you buy harness and use using harness for continuous delivery you know your deployments like we do an assessment of like right now you're deploying once in two weeks you can become once a day your engineers spend this much time per deployment like you know 6 hours per deployment that can come down to 30 minutes per deployment you know your failure rate is this much today you know of 20% deployment failure rate we can bring it down to 4%, you define the outcomes in the sales process and then you know after the you know once you sell it we work with the customer on have you achieved those outcomes and have you if you not achieved those outcomes you haven't delivered the value that we promised even if you're not that structured around it I really think like the happy successful customer definition is very simple is have they achieved the value outcome they thought when they bought it and if they have then they most customers are happy if that happens in the case of harness when you think about building out the early goto market team.","startTime":870.639,"endTime":932.079,"durationSeconds":61,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"가치 약속-검증 프로세스가 매우 구체적."},{"segmentIndex":27,"text":"And so that's what I did like and I was able to attract a VP of sales you know at that time and then the VP of sales brought in started to build it out and all that at harness actually I did decide that I know now it's like I at dynamics I work with sales people all the time I know enterprise software sales and all that so I had enough skills that you know and I could attract a head of sales very easily and harness but I actually wanted to have a couple of reps just work with me initially I felt like I need to be close very close to the customers in that I was still like in the transition from founder le sales very early on at harness to me it was very clear that I need to be you know the second time founder I was a bit paranoid about that I don't want to be too far removed at app dynamics right before I was leading a org of like thousand people as was my last job there as a CEO and now you come in and like just completely on the ground at five people and that's a shift and then you you're you may get into like okay I need these layers of people to do things and I was very paranoid about not doing that I need to go on the ground and not bring layers so actually harness I initially didn't hire until the first million I didn't hire air of sales and uh I said okay I'll just hire a few reps I know how to manage them I know how to interview them I know what to do there one of the big points I think you're trying to make is that the way the product is delivered and the way the product is built is one and the same and they have to go together and so when you're selling it and you're close to the customer and you're building the product you have a very tight feedback loop between those >> very fast and kind of >> when you do think about hiring your first head of sales do you think there's some special things you're looking for in your first head of sales that's different than an excellent atscale sales leader or a great head of sales can go from 1 to 50 million or 50 to 500 or sort of that type of thing.","startTime":1019.36,"endTime":1121.2,"durationSeconds":102,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"창업자 영업과 피드백 루프 통찰 탁월."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"The second part after that is which is kind of tied to recruiting is the enablement like if you bring people in can you understand like what it takes to enable people well the value of that like the ramping the people if you don't enable them well good people are not going to make money and if they're not going to make money they will leave and now you have like you know you don't have the sales capacity that you need then the third is a disciplined sales process like the sales process is not very loose and how you generate you know pipeline how do you evaluate every part of where you are in the deal how do you look for like what is the right pain.","startTime":1240.48,"endTime":1271.6,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"채용·온보딩 원리를 구체적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":8,"text":"So you can have you know there are many frameworks around a structured sales process but you want someone who believes in it and who can run that in a disciplined way otherwise the predictability of the business goes away like a sales rep comes to you and we are doing this P and the things are going very well suddenly oh we lost a deal it's like why did we lost a deal because there was another person who was pitching for competitor we didn't know about that is a bad sales process like in a structured sales process you will try to find that early on you'll try to build the right you know champions in the found so you don't have surprises.","startTime":1271.6,"endTime":1302.72,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"구조적 세일즈 프로세스의 가치가 뚜렷함."},{"segmentIndex":12,"text":"If life I interview a sales person and they're not very clear if I ask them normally okay how did you perform on your targets in the last 10 years and they don't know it easily best people will have in their resumes even like you know 2020 I achieved 110% of my kota 21 I achieved 109% of my kota 23 I did this whatever right the reason I like that is like you know not just because they achieved more but because they are anchored as a measure of success 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people who are only experienced in enterprise selling and you want to sell to SMB they will struggle and same with like the people who only sell SMB they will struggle so that you definitely want like if you want your business enterprise selling you need someone who has experience enterprise selling have you noticed any patterns in hiring go to market people from like the third best company in the category versus the first Do you like the people that worked at the premium company in the category?","startTime":1547.44,"endTime":1609.919,"durationSeconds":62,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"세일즈 경험 적합성을 체계적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":41,"text":"Normally what happens is like the number one company is number one not just because they have great product but because they also have a very strong sales uh culture and DNA most of the time you do want someone who is like spend so they know what good sales culture and good sales discipline means I'm not biased against number one company because of that if someone is on number three company and they've done well because the product was not very good and they've sold it there is value to it I would rather take someone who's coming from a highly disciplined and sales culture because then you don't have to teach them that cuz they already know they have spent like 3 years, 5 years, 7 years in that highly disciplined sales culture.","startTime":1634.08,"endTime":1671.44,"durationSeconds":37,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"상위 회사 출신 선호 이유를 논리적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"I studied computer science you know became software engineer then you know when you start as an entrepreneur it's you have to hone it you have to put your energy into it many times like you know software engineers come to me it's like hey you became from engineer to entrepreneur what skillsh you had to learn tell them you really need three skills there's the technical skills don't underestimate and forget that because that is your strength there's the people skills because you cannot build anything of size without you know alone and third is the business skills technical skills are your core So you have to make sure you don't lose your core power but you have to put deliberate energy in the other two skills which is the people and the business.","startTime":1731.919,"endTime":1768.88,"durationSeconds":37,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"창업가 핵심 역량을 명확히 구조화함."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"So you become much more revenue oriented and that was very key like you know just because that's was the only way to come out of it like and it was no easy path other than revenue there was no next round I could raise without it I think maybe that was it like you know you force yourself to do it like you know you found you find revenue find your way to learn how to get to revenue it's very simple like I tell everyone is like the only lifeblood of any company is revenue it's like if revenue is there most things will kind of you'll figure out and if not and if of you'll figure out and if not they won't >> you can build the best product everything have the best everything is if the revenue is not there ultimately you need the revenues.","startTime":1860.799,"endTime":1927.2,"durationSeconds":66,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"매출의 본질을 강하게 일반화함."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"you know so we there but the other part of the variable was also like you know I would say not the best investor board dynamic and that makes a creates execution uncertainty on what will happen in the future like you know what we'll do so that was a factor in there as well so when I also learned the lessons from the first company to second company to me that's very important as well like you know you got to make the right aligned set of investors and board like at harness we have this vision for building it for the a platform for the long term but if I have investors who don't want to do that for the long term who want to do in different vision for what the company should be then you're kind of misaligned and that creates a big execution and uncertainty and risk.","startTime":2318.64,"endTime":2353.92,"durationSeconds":35,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"투자자 정렬의 중요성을 깊게 설명함."},{"segmentIndex":5,"text":"One is are they investing because they believe in the vision and they believe in the founder or they investing for FOMO because you know half of them are of the investors are just oh this is a hot deal I need to chase it and they don't really fundamentally believe in the problem or you that's one thing I say like how do you figure that out you know in the process like how much someone who's coming who's want to invest how much conviction they have like do they have a point of view of why they want to invest in not just because you're suddenly a hot deal and that's why they want to invest that definitely is one but I also look that do the reference checks and all on how they would behave in hard situations like you know how what's their belief in like the role of a the founder and a board member like you know it's the where the boundaries are like that's what I ask you know if a founder friend comes to me on uh look at that like you know and track look at the track records you know there's the talk to other former entrepreneurs they have invested in it's important like you know if it's because you're going to be working with them for a long time right >> it's easier to get a divorce than it is to get someone off your board.","startTime":2456.319,"endTime":2515.68,"durationSeconds":59,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"투자자 선별 조언과 표현이 풍부함."},{"segmentIndex":19,"text":"But kind of chasing competitors and being too obsessed by chasing them can you can just go into one direction to another to this and that and not really the lens of revenue and customer value delivery works much simpler because you could be very focused with that on like you know we need to drive this much revenue and how do we drive the revenue is by delivering value to customers and how do we prove that so can we increase constantly increase the value that we creating by more use cases more by some use case by doing it better than we used to do before.","startTime":2677.52,"endTime":2707.76,"durationSeconds":30,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"경쟁보다 가치 중심 원칙이 선명함."}],"generatedAt":"2026-06-25T00:14:56.611Z","keyClipsTotalSec":2117},{"videoId":"LvOYXKAyAqs","chunkIndex":2,"totalChunks":7,"title":"How Harness runs 16 “startups within a startup” at scale | Jyoti Bansal (Co-founder and CEO) — Part 3 of 7","thumbnail":"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LvOYXKAyAqs/maxresdefault.jpg","duration":3917,"uploader":"First Round 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product market sales fit which is if you design a product that and you know which is like what problem you're solving what is your solution that's a product market fit but if you have not figured out how to sell it will eventually you have to may have to redesign the product if you're going to sell it to enterprise or win market you're going to sell it through PLG or you're going to sell it through salesled how you design the product is very dependent on how you're going to sell it so if you don't think about it like the product is solving the problems your go to market is going to PLG and you didn't really design for that experience that's going not going to work you know you're going to sell into large enterprise and you didn't design it properly so to me figuring out what the go to market would be is very key you have to iterate through that","startTime":558.64,"endTime":568.64,"durationSeconds":10,"level":"C1","overallScore":10,"rationale":"판매방식과 제품설계 연결 통찰이 큼."},{"segmentIndex":4,"text":">> If someone asked me as a second time founder, what you learn? I said the main thing is to not go in the assumptions that what worked the first time will always work the second time.","startTime":20.56,"endTime":27.76,"durationSeconds":7,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.6,"rationale":"재창업 교훈이 분명한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":23,"text":"Now if now you are want to change to something else or build something in parallel that's just organizationally hard you know so that's the one part that I see like you know you build all the machine around it's mostly marketing heavy mostly PLG you have like cheaper younger inside sales people enterprise will be more salesled you know you have partners and channels and expensive enterprise sales people longer sales cycle so there's a shift in how the financial planning will happen in your company and would the CFO will on board with it.","startTime":134.8,"endTime":165.44,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"조직·재무 전환 통찰이 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":24,"text":"The sales people what you celebrated before how the product managers work with go to market those just a you know company's DNA get created over time the second is the product you know the products are that are designed for mid-market and products that are designed for enterprise have certain differences in enterprise you need a high you want lots of capabilities and lots of flexibility could become a complex user experience in midm market so What's your strength in enterprise could become your weakness in there verse also applies like you know in enter in mid-market you designed a simple product with less capabilities but now it doesn't work and do the things in enterprise so it's possible to do both you know it's possible to do both but you have to design the products in the right kind of way where you kind of remove the things that are not needed in market you price it in a certain way uh but it's just hard like enter for enterprise focused companies to go mid-market is also hard >> I mean you very rarely see a company that's dominating that begins by dominating enterp enterprise be able to go down market.","startTime":165.44,"endTime":225.28,"durationSeconds":60,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"제품-시장 차이 통찰이 매우 큼."},{"segmentIndex":28,"text":"one reason is I don't want the mid-market companies to come in enterprise at some point in future you know and compete with us there second is I do think that designing the simplicity of the experience helps an enterprise as well because if you want to do your you know even enterprises you would still do some PLG you still want you know people to get going you know even someone who's already bought your product for them to adopt you still want the simplicity and the virality that comes from it there's an advantage of like you know as an enterprise focused company also to not completely let go of like you know okay we are so heavyweight and so 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make.","startTime":510.639,"endTime":546.399,"durationSeconds":36,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"고객 집중의 비용을 구체적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"So now at some point you can predict like based on the how many leads you know that what you're going to close in 6 months because you know this is your sales cycle you can start planning your business in terms of how many sellers you're going to new sellers you will hire how long it takes them to ramp how many you what's the sales capacity that comes from it what's the demand generation capacity that comes from it so then you know like you know okay we want to go from 50 to 100 you know what you need otherwise if you are like I we're going to go to 50 to 100 we have this many sellers today and you know we're going to close business in these accounts and deals that doesn't work like to me it's like a scaled sales organization is when you're not talking about deals you're talking about capacity like you know the deals will happen like you know we have the right capacity when you say okay I have 20 million a quarter of ramped sales capacity so I know like I'm going to close you know 90% business of that roughly 18 million without even thinking of what deals you have for the 18 million then you have you know your predictable system of course at the end of the day you have some deals you have to close but you can get to a point where you know you don't need to think about what deal what not, right?","startTime":672.16,"endTime":733.519,"durationSeconds":61,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"스케일드 영업 정의가 매우 선명함."},{"segmentIndex":16,"text":"I the first question I asked him okay how many happy successful customers you have and it's like we don't really have any happy successful customers or we have like three or four or five product is not ready yet to for go to market to really scale on it that's where I look at like you know many time that is the founder le sales job is to deliver not just the first 25 customers but also the first 25 success stories or like the successful outcomes that come out of it >> a lot of the product maturity happens in that process not in the selling process is the delivering the value in the into those.","startTime":797.2,"endTime":828.48,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"초기 창업자 역할과 기준을 잘 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":20,"text":"In harness we run a very structured sales process where we will create a assessment before we sell which is this is the value you're going to get like you know if you buy harness and use using harness for continuous delivery you know your deployments like we do an assessment of like right now you're deploying once in two weeks you can become once a day your engineers spend this much time per deployment like you know 6 hours per deployment that can come down to 30 minutes per deployment you know your failure rate is this much today you know of 20% deployment failure rate we can bring it down to 4%, you define the outcomes in the sales process and then you know after the you know once you sell it we work with the customer on have you achieved those outcomes and have you if you not achieved those outcomes you haven't delivered the value that we promised even if you're not that structured around it I really think like the happy successful customer definition is very simple is have they achieved the value outcome they thought when they bought it and if they have then they most customers are happy if that happens in the case of harness when you think about building out the early goto market team.","startTime":870.639,"endTime":932.079,"durationSeconds":61,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"가치 약속-검증 프로세스가 매우 구체적."},{"segmentIndex":27,"text":"And so that's what I did like and I was able to attract a VP of sales you know at that time and then the VP of sales brought in started to build it out and all that at harness actually I did decide that I know now it's like I at dynamics I work with sales people all the time I know enterprise software sales and all that so I had enough skills that you know and I could attract a head of sales very easily and harness but I actually wanted to have a couple of reps just work with me initially I felt like I need to be close very close to the customers in that I was still like in the transition from founder le sales very early on at harness to me it was very clear that I need to be you know the second time founder I was a bit paranoid about that I don't want to be too far removed at app dynamics right before I was leading a org of like thousand people as was my last job there as a CEO and now you come in and like just completely on the ground at five people and that's a shift and then you you're you may get into like okay I need these layers of people to do things and I was very paranoid about not doing that I need to go on the ground and not bring layers so actually harness I initially didn't hire until the first million I didn't hire air of sales and uh I said okay I'll just hire a few reps I know how to manage them I know how to interview them I know what to do there one of the big points I think you're trying to make is that the way the product is delivered and the way the product is built is one and the same and they have to go together and so when you're selling it and you're close to the customer and you're building the product you have a very tight feedback loop between those >> very fast and kind of >> when you do think about hiring your first head of sales do you think there's some special things you're looking for in your first head of sales that's different than an excellent atscale sales leader or a great head of sales can go from 1 to 50 million or 50 to 500 or sort of that type of thing.","startTime":1019.36,"endTime":1121.2,"durationSeconds":102,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"창업자 영업과 피드백 루프 통찰 탁월."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"The second part after that is which is kind of tied to recruiting is the enablement like if you bring people in can you understand like what it takes to enable people well the value of that like the ramping the people if you don't enable them well good people are not going to make money and if they're not going to make money they will leave and now you have like you know you don't have the sales capacity that you need then the third is a disciplined sales process like the sales process is not very loose and how you generate you know pipeline how do you evaluate every part of where you are in the deal how do you look for like what is the right pain.","startTime":1240.48,"endTime":1271.6,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"채용·온보딩 원리를 구체적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":8,"text":"So you can have you know there are many frameworks around a structured sales process but you want someone who believes in it and who can run that in a disciplined way otherwise the predictability of the business goes away like a sales rep comes to you and we are doing this P and the things are going very well suddenly oh we lost a deal it's like why did we lost a deal because there was another person who was pitching for competitor we didn't know about that is a bad sales process like in a structured sales process you will try to find that early on you'll try to build the right you know champions in the found so you don't have surprises.","startTime":1271.6,"endTime":1302.72,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"구조적 세일즈 프로세스의 가치가 뚜렷함."},{"segmentIndex":12,"text":"If life I interview a sales person and they're not very clear if I ask them normally okay how did you perform on your targets in the last 10 years and they don't know it easily best people will have in their resumes even like you know 2020 I achieved 110% of my kota 21 I achieved 109% of my kota 23 I did this whatever right the reason I like that is like you know not just because they achieved more but because they are anchored as a measure of success around that like do they take pride in it and do they consider that you know you want to achieve your goals and targets is uh is the thing you take pride in. people who don't like you and you ask them okay how did you do and they all start speaking like in abstract terms I know like I want a saleserson and say I achieved 100% of my target or 70% of my target for these reasons or but someone who doesn't even know their target or talk about that is normally a bad sign what I've seen is like the you recruit very well and you are almost like obsessed with the talent that you can recruit you enable them well you know enable could be at the rep level enable could be at the manager level at the leader level as the or grows you know you run a tight disciplined sales process and you take, you know, extreme ownership of the number and you kind of drive that ownership of the number across the org.","startTime":1324.32,"endTime":1392.24,"durationSeconds":68,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"채용 기준과 성과 태도를 촘촘히 설명."},{"segmentIndex":37,"text":"enterprise infrastructure you're selling to IT and technical people and the third would be the hardware oriented things like firewalls and all that and I do care about that you have like when I'm selling an enterprise infrastructure I've seen like yes people coming from business applications can succeed but there's a risk there people coming from hardware selling can succeed but there's a risk there these three buckets are broad enough like I don't need to be like an infrastructure software that someone has sold a CI/CD product doesn't matter to me like if they have sold anything infrastructure software that's good enough like they know how to sell to IT and how to sell to infrastructure people and technical people and developers and all that you know that's normally I would look at I do look at SMB versus enterprise for sure the people who are only experienced in enterprise selling and you want to sell to SMB they will struggle and same with like the people who only sell SMB they will struggle so that you definitely want like if you want your business enterprise selling you need someone who has experience enterprise selling have you noticed any patterns in hiring go to market people from like the third best company in the category versus the first Do you like the people that worked at the premium company in the category?","startTime":1547.44,"endTime":1609.919,"durationSeconds":62,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"세일즈 경험 적합성을 체계적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":41,"text":"Normally what happens is like the number one company is number one not just because they have great product but because they also have a very strong sales uh culture and DNA most of the time you do want someone who is like spend so they know what good sales culture and good sales discipline means I'm not biased against number one company because of that if someone is on number three company and they've done well because the product was not very good and they've sold it there is value to it I would rather take someone who's coming from a highly disciplined and sales culture because then you don't have to teach them that cuz they already know they have spent like 3 years, 5 years, 7 years in that highly disciplined sales culture.","startTime":1634.08,"endTime":1671.44,"durationSeconds":37,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"상위 회사 출신 선호 이유를 논리적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"I studied computer science you know became software engineer then you know when you start as an entrepreneur it's you have to hone it you have to put your energy into it many times like you know software engineers come to me it's like hey you became from engineer to entrepreneur what skillsh you had to learn tell them you really need three skills there's the technical skills don't underestimate and forget that because that is your strength there's the people skills because you cannot build anything of size without you know alone and third is the business skills technical skills are your core So you have to make sure you don't lose your core power but you have to put deliberate energy in the other two skills which is the people and the business.","startTime":1731.919,"endTime":1768.88,"durationSeconds":37,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"창업가 핵심 역량을 명확히 구조화함."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"So you become much more revenue oriented and that was very key like you know just because that's was the only way to come out of it like and it was no easy path other than revenue there was no next round I could raise without it I think maybe that was it like you know you force yourself to do it like you know you found you find revenue find your way to learn how to get to revenue it's very simple like I tell everyone is like the only lifeblood of any company is revenue it's like if revenue is there most things will kind of you'll figure out and if not and if of you'll figure out and if not they won't >> you can build the best product everything have the best everything is if the revenue is not there ultimately you need the revenues.","startTime":1860.799,"endTime":1927.2,"durationSeconds":66,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"매출의 본질을 강하게 일반화함."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"you know so we there but the other part of the variable was also like you know I would say not the best investor board dynamic and that makes a creates execution uncertainty on what will happen in the future like you know what we'll do so that was a factor in there as well so when I also learned the lessons from the first company to second company to me that's very important as well like you know you got to make the right aligned set of investors and board like at harness we have this vision for building it for the a platform for the long term but if I have investors who don't want to do that for the long term who want to do in different vision for what the company should be then you're kind of misaligned and that creates a big execution and uncertainty and risk.","startTime":2318.64,"endTime":2353.92,"durationSeconds":35,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"투자자 정렬의 중요성을 깊게 설명함."},{"segmentIndex":5,"text":"One is are they investing because they believe in the vision and they believe in the founder or they investing for FOMO because you know half of them are of the investors are just oh this is a hot deal I need to chase it and they don't really fundamentally believe in the problem or you that's one thing I say like how do you figure that out you know in the process like how much someone who's coming who's want to invest how much conviction they have like do they have a point of view of why they want to invest in not just because you're suddenly a hot deal and that's why they want to invest that definitely is one but I also look that do the reference checks and all on how they would behave in hard situations like you know how what's their belief in like the role of a the founder and a board member like you know it's the where the boundaries are like that's what I ask you know if a founder friend comes to me on uh look at that like you know and track look at the track records you know there's the talk to other former entrepreneurs they have invested in it's important like you know if it's because you're going to be working with them for a long time right >> it's easier to get a divorce than it is to get someone off your board.","startTime":2456.319,"endTime":2515.68,"durationSeconds":59,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"투자자 선별 조언과 표현이 풍부함."},{"segmentIndex":19,"text":"But kind of chasing competitors and being too obsessed by chasing them can you can just go into one direction to another to this and that and not really the lens of revenue and customer value delivery works much simpler because you could be very focused with that on like you know we need to drive this much 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I said the main thing is to not go in the assumptions that what worked the first time will always work the second time.","startTime":20.56,"endTime":27.76,"durationSeconds":7,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.6,"rationale":"재창업 교훈이 분명한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":23,"text":"Now if now you are want to change to something else or build something in parallel that's just organizationally hard you know so that's the one part that I see like you know you build all the machine around it's mostly marketing heavy mostly PLG you have like cheaper younger inside sales people enterprise will be more salesled you know you have partners and channels and expensive enterprise sales people longer sales cycle so there's a shift in how the financial planning will happen in your company and would the CFO will on board with it.","startTime":134.8,"endTime":165.44,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"조직·재무 전환 통찰이 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":24,"text":"The sales people what you celebrated before how the product managers work with go to market those just a you know company's DNA get created over time the second is the product you know the products are that are designed for mid-market and products that are designed for enterprise have certain differences in enterprise you need a high you want lots of capabilities and lots of flexibility could become a complex user experience in midm market so What's your strength in enterprise could become your weakness in there verse also applies like you know in enter in mid-market you designed a simple product with less capabilities but now it doesn't work and do the things in enterprise so it's possible to do both you know it's possible to do both but you have to design the products in the right kind of way where you kind of remove the things that are not needed in market you price it in a certain way uh but it's just hard like enter for enterprise focused companies to go mid-market is also hard >> I mean you very rarely see a company that's dominating that begins by dominating enterp enterprise be able to go down market.","startTime":165.44,"endTime":225.28,"durationSeconds":60,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"제품-시장 차이 통찰이 매우 큼."},{"segmentIndex":28,"text":"one reason is I don't want the mid-market companies to come in enterprise at some point in future you know and compete with us there second is I do think that designing the simplicity of the experience helps an enterprise as well because if you want to do your you know even enterprises you would still do some PLG you still want you know people to get going you know even someone who's already bought your product for them to adopt you still want the simplicity and the virality that comes from it there's an advantage of like you know as an enterprise focused company also to not completely let go of like you know okay we are so heavyweight and so 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make.","startTime":510.639,"endTime":546.399,"durationSeconds":36,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"고객 집중의 비용을 구체적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"So now at some point you can predict like based on the how many leads you know that what you're going to close in 6 months because you know this is your sales cycle you can start planning your business in terms of how many sellers you're going to new sellers you will hire how long it takes them to ramp how many you what's the sales capacity that comes from it what's the demand generation capacity that comes from it so then you know like you know okay we want to go from 50 to 100 you know what you need otherwise if you are like I we're going to go to 50 to 100 we have this many sellers today and you know we're going to close business in these accounts and deals that doesn't work like to me it's like a scaled sales organization is when you're not talking about deals you're talking about capacity like you know the deals will happen like you know we have the right capacity when you say okay I have 20 million a quarter of ramped sales capacity so I know like I'm going to close you know 90% business of that roughly 18 million without even thinking of what deals you have for the 18 million then you have you know your predictable system of course at the end of the day you have some deals you have to close but you can get to a point where you know you don't need to think about what deal what not, right?","startTime":672.16,"endTime":733.519,"durationSeconds":61,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"스케일드 영업 정의가 매우 선명함."},{"segmentIndex":16,"text":"I the first question I asked him okay how many happy successful customers you have and it's like we don't really have any happy successful customers or we have like three or four or five product is not ready yet to for go to market to really scale on it that's where I look at like you know many time that is the founder le sales job is to deliver not just the first 25 customers but also the first 25 success stories or like the successful outcomes that come out of it >> a lot of the product maturity happens in that process not in the selling process is the delivering the value in the into those.","startTime":797.2,"endTime":828.48,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"초기 창업자 역할과 기준을 잘 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":20,"text":"In harness we run a very structured sales process where we will create a assessment before we sell which is this is the value you're going to get like you know if you buy harness and use using harness for continuous delivery you know your deployments like we do an assessment of like right now you're deploying once in two weeks you can become once a day your engineers spend this much time per deployment like you know 6 hours per deployment that can come down to 30 minutes per deployment you know your failure rate is this much today you know of 20% deployment failure rate we can bring it down to 4%, you define the outcomes in the sales process and then you know after the you know once you sell it we work with the customer on have you achieved those outcomes and have you if you not achieved those outcomes you haven't delivered the value that we promised even if you're not that structured around it I really think like the happy successful customer definition is very simple is have they achieved the value outcome they thought when they bought it and if they have then they most customers are happy if that happens in the case of harness when you think about building out the early goto market team.","startTime":870.639,"endTime":932.079,"durationSeconds":61,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"가치 약속-검증 프로세스가 매우 구체적."},{"segmentIndex":27,"text":"And so that's what I did like and I was able to attract a VP of sales you know at that time and then the VP of sales brought in started to build it out and all that at harness actually I did decide that I know now it's like I at dynamics I work with sales people all the time I know enterprise software sales and all that so I had enough skills that you know and I could attract a head of sales very easily and harness but I actually wanted to have a couple of reps just work with me initially I felt like I need to be close very close to the customers in that I was still like in the transition from founder le sales very early on at harness to me it was very clear that I need to be you know the second time founder I was a bit paranoid about that I don't want to be too far removed at app dynamics right before I was leading a org of like thousand people as was my last job there as a CEO and now you come in and like just completely on the ground at five people and that's a shift and then you you're you may get into like okay I need these layers of people to do things and I was very paranoid about not doing that I need to go on the ground and not bring layers so actually harness I initially didn't hire until the first million I didn't hire air of sales and uh I said okay I'll just hire a few reps I know how to manage them I know how to interview them I know what to do there one of the big points I think you're trying to make is that the way the product is delivered and the way the product is built is one and the same and they have to go together and so when you're selling it and you're close to the customer and you're building the product you have a very tight feedback loop between those >> very fast and kind of >> when you do think about hiring your first head of sales do you think there's some special things you're looking for in your first head of sales that's different than an excellent atscale sales leader or a great head of sales can go from 1 to 50 million or 50 to 500 or sort of that type of thing.","startTime":1019.36,"endTime":1121.2,"durationSeconds":102,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"창업자 영업과 피드백 루프 통찰 탁월."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"The second part after that is which is kind of tied to recruiting is the enablement like if you bring people in can you understand like what it takes to enable people well the value of that like the ramping the people if you don't enable them well good people are not going to make money and if they're not going to make money they will leave and now you have like you know you don't have the sales capacity that you need then the third is a disciplined sales process like the sales process is not very loose and how you generate you know pipeline how do you evaluate every part of where you are in the deal how do you look for like what is the right pain.","startTime":1240.48,"endTime":1271.6,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"채용·온보딩 원리를 구체적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":8,"text":"So you can have you know there are many frameworks around a structured sales process but you want someone who believes in it and who can run that in a disciplined way otherwise the predictability of the business goes away like a sales rep comes to you and we are doing this P and the things are going very well suddenly oh we lost a deal it's like why did we lost a deal because there was another person who was pitching for competitor we didn't know about that is a bad sales process like in a structured sales process you will try to find that early on you'll try to build the right you know champions in the found so you don't have surprises.","startTime":1271.6,"endTime":1302.72,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"구조적 세일즈 프로세스의 가치가 뚜렷함."},{"segmentIndex":12,"text":"If life I interview a sales person and they're not very clear if I ask them normally okay how did you perform on your targets in the last 10 years and they don't know it easily best people will have in their resumes even like you know 2020 I achieved 110% of my kota 21 I achieved 109% of my kota 23 I did this whatever right the reason I like that is like you know not just because they achieved more but because they are anchored as a measure of success around that like do they take pride in it and do they consider that you know you want to achieve your goals and targets is uh is the thing you take pride in. people who don't like you and you ask them okay how did you do and they all start speaking like in abstract terms I know like I want a saleserson and say I achieved 100% of my target or 70% of my target for these reasons or but someone who doesn't even know their target or talk about that is normally a bad sign what I've seen is like the you recruit very well and you are almost like obsessed with the talent that you can recruit you enable them well you know enable could be at the rep level enable could be at the manager level at the leader level as the or grows you know you run a tight disciplined sales process and you take, you know, extreme ownership of the number and you kind of drive that ownership of the number across the org.","startTime":1324.32,"endTime":1392.24,"durationSeconds":68,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"채용 기준과 성과 태도를 촘촘히 설명."},{"segmentIndex":37,"text":"enterprise infrastructure you're selling to IT and technical people and the third would be the hardware oriented things like firewalls and all that and I do care about that you have like when I'm selling an enterprise infrastructure I've seen like yes people coming from business applications can succeed but there's a risk there people coming from hardware selling can succeed but there's a risk there these three buckets are broad enough like I don't need to be like an infrastructure software that someone has sold a CI/CD product doesn't matter to me like if they have sold anything infrastructure software that's good enough like they know how to sell to IT and how to sell to infrastructure people and technical people and developers and all that you know that's normally I would look at I do look at SMB versus enterprise for sure the people who are only experienced in enterprise selling and you want to sell to SMB they will struggle and same with like the people who only sell SMB they will struggle so that you definitely want like if you want your business enterprise selling you need someone who has experience enterprise selling have you noticed any patterns in hiring go to market people from like the third best company in the category versus the first Do you like the people that worked at the premium company in the category?","startTime":1547.44,"endTime":1609.919,"durationSeconds":62,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"세일즈 경험 적합성을 체계적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":41,"text":"Normally what happens is like the number one company is number one not just because they have great product but because they also have a very strong sales uh culture and DNA most of the time you do want someone who is like spend so they know what good sales culture and good sales discipline means I'm not biased against number one company because of that if someone is on number three company and they've done well because the product was not very good and they've sold it there is value to it I would rather take someone who's coming from a highly disciplined and sales culture because then you don't have to teach them that cuz they already know they have spent like 3 years, 5 years, 7 years in that highly disciplined sales culture.","startTime":1634.08,"endTime":1671.44,"durationSeconds":37,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"상위 회사 출신 선호 이유를 논리적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"I studied computer science you know became software engineer then you know when you start as an entrepreneur it's you have to hone it you have to put your energy into it many times like you know software engineers come to me it's like hey you became from engineer to entrepreneur what skillsh you had to learn tell them you really need three skills there's the technical skills don't underestimate and forget that because that is your strength there's the people skills because you cannot build anything of size without you know alone and third is the business skills technical skills are your core So you have to make sure you don't lose your core power but you have to put deliberate energy in the other two skills which is the people and the business.","startTime":1731.919,"endTime":1768.88,"durationSeconds":37,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"창업가 핵심 역량을 명확히 구조화함."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"So you become much more revenue oriented and that was very key like you know just because that's was the only way to come out of it like and it was no easy path other than revenue there was no next round I could raise without it I think maybe that was it like you know you force yourself to do it like you know you found you find revenue find your way to learn how to get to revenue it's very simple like I tell everyone is like the only lifeblood of any company is revenue it's like if revenue is there most things will kind of you'll figure out and if not and if of you'll figure out and if not they won't >> you can build the best product everything have the best everything is if the revenue is not there ultimately you need the revenues.","startTime":1860.799,"endTime":1927.2,"durationSeconds":66,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"매출의 본질을 강하게 일반화함."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"you know so we there but the other part of the variable was also like you know I would say not the best investor board dynamic and that makes a creates execution uncertainty on what will happen in the future like you know what we'll do so that was a factor in there as well so when I also learned the lessons from the first company to second company to me that's very important as well like you know you got to make the right aligned set of investors and board like at harness we have this vision for building it for the a platform for the long term but if I have investors who don't want to do that for the long term who want to do in different vision for what the company should be then you're kind of misaligned and that creates a big execution and uncertainty and risk.","startTime":2318.64,"endTime":2353.92,"durationSeconds":35,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"투자자 정렬의 중요성을 깊게 설명함."},{"segmentIndex":5,"text":"One is are they investing because they believe in the vision and they believe in the founder or they investing for FOMO because you know half of them are of the investors are just oh this is a hot deal I need to chase it and they don't really fundamentally believe in the problem or you that's one thing I say like how do you figure that out you know in the process like how much someone who's coming who's want to invest how much conviction they have like do they have a point of view of why they want to invest in not just because you're suddenly a hot deal and that's why they want to invest that definitely is one but I also look that do the reference checks and all on how they would behave in hard situations like you know how what's their belief in like the role of a the founder and a board member like you know it's the where the boundaries are like that's what I ask you know if a founder friend comes to me on uh look at that like you know and track look at the track records you know there's the talk to other former entrepreneurs they have invested in it's important like you know if it's because you're going to be working with them for a long time right >> it's easier to get a divorce than it is to get someone off your board.","startTime":2456.319,"endTime":2515.68,"durationSeconds":59,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"투자자 선별 조언과 표현이 풍부함."},{"segmentIndex":19,"text":"But kind of chasing competitors and being too obsessed by chasing them can you can just go into one direction to another to this and that and not really the lens of revenue and customer value delivery works much simpler because you could be very focused with that on like you know we need to drive this much 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I said the main thing is to not go in the assumptions that what worked the first time will always work the second time.","startTime":20.56,"endTime":27.76,"durationSeconds":7,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.6,"rationale":"재창업 교훈이 분명한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":23,"text":"Now if now you are want to change to something else or build something in parallel that's just organizationally hard you know so that's the one part that I see like you know you build all the machine around it's mostly marketing heavy mostly PLG you have like cheaper younger inside sales people enterprise will be more salesled you know you have partners and channels and expensive enterprise sales people longer sales cycle so there's a shift in how the financial planning will happen in your company and would the CFO will on board with it.","startTime":134.8,"endTime":165.44,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"조직·재무 전환 통찰이 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":24,"text":"The sales people what you celebrated before how the product managers work with go to market those just a you know company's DNA get created over time the second is the product you know the products are that are designed for mid-market and products that are designed for enterprise have certain differences in enterprise you need a high you want lots of capabilities and lots of flexibility could become a complex user experience in midm market so What's your strength in enterprise could become your weakness in there verse also applies like you know in enter in mid-market you designed a simple product with less capabilities but now it doesn't work and do the things in enterprise so it's possible to do both you know it's possible to do both but you have to design the products in the right kind of way where you kind of remove the things that are not needed in market you price it in a certain way uh but it's just hard like enter for enterprise focused companies to go mid-market is also hard >> I mean you very rarely see a company 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make.","startTime":510.639,"endTime":546.399,"durationSeconds":36,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"고객 집중의 비용을 구체적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"So now at some point you can predict like based on the how many leads you know that what you're going to close in 6 months because you know this is your sales cycle you can start planning your business in terms of how many sellers you're going to new sellers you will hire how long it takes them to ramp how many you what's the sales capacity that comes from it what's the demand generation capacity that comes from it so then you know like you know okay we want to go from 50 to 100 you know what you need otherwise if you are like I we're going to go to 50 to 100 we have this many sellers today and you know we're going to close business in these accounts and deals that doesn't work like to me it's like a scaled sales organization is when you're not talking about deals you're talking about capacity like you know the deals will happen like you know we have the right capacity when you say okay I have 20 million a quarter of ramped sales capacity so I know like I'm going to close you know 90% business of that roughly 18 million without even thinking of what deals you have for the 18 million then you have you know your predictable system of course at the end of the day you have some deals you have to close but you can get to a point where you know you don't need to think about what deal what not, right?","startTime":672.16,"endTime":733.519,"durationSeconds":61,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"스케일드 영업 정의가 매우 선명함."},{"segmentIndex":16,"text":"I the first question I asked him okay how many happy successful customers you have and it's like we don't really have any happy successful customers or we have like three or four or five product is not ready yet to for go to market to really scale on it that's where I look at like you know many time that is the founder le sales job is to deliver not just the first 25 customers but also the first 25 success stories or like the successful outcomes that come out of it >> a lot of the product maturity happens in that process not in the selling process is the delivering the value in the into those.","startTime":797.2,"endTime":828.48,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"초기 창업자 역할과 기준을 잘 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":20,"text":"In harness we run a very structured sales process where we will create a assessment before we sell which is this is the value you're going to get like you know if you buy harness and use using harness for continuous delivery you know your deployments like we do an assessment of like right now you're deploying once in two weeks you can become once a day your engineers spend this much time per deployment like you know 6 hours per deployment that can come down to 30 minutes per deployment you know your failure rate is this much today you know of 20% deployment failure rate we can bring it down to 4%, you define the outcomes in the sales process and then you know after the you know once you sell it we work with the customer on have you achieved those outcomes and have you if you not achieved those outcomes you haven't delivered the value that we promised even if you're not that structured around it I really think like the happy successful customer definition is very simple is have they achieved the value outcome they thought when they bought it and if they have then they most customers are happy if that happens in the case of harness when you think about building out the early goto market team.","startTime":870.639,"endTime":932.079,"durationSeconds":61,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"가치 약속-검증 프로세스가 매우 구체적."},{"segmentIndex":27,"text":"And so that's what I did like and I was able to attract a VP of sales you know at that time and then the VP of sales brought in started to build it out and all that at harness actually I did decide that I know now it's like I at dynamics I work with sales people all the time I know enterprise software sales and all that so I had enough skills that you know and I could attract a head of sales very easily and harness but I actually wanted to have a couple of reps just work with me initially I felt like I need to be close very close to the customers in that I was still like in the transition from founder le sales very early on at harness to me it was very clear that I need to be you know the second time founder I was a bit paranoid about that I don't want to be too far removed at app dynamics right before I was leading a org of like thousand people as was my last job there as a CEO and now you come in and like just completely on the ground at five people and that's a shift and then you you're you may get into like okay I need these layers of people to do things and I was very paranoid about not doing that I need to go on the ground and not bring layers so actually harness I initially didn't hire until the first million I didn't hire air of sales and uh I said okay I'll just hire a few reps I know how to manage them I know how to interview them I know what to do there one of the big points I think you're trying to make is that the way the product is delivered and the way the product is built is one and the same and they have to go together and so when you're selling it and you're close to the customer and you're building the product you have a very tight feedback loop between those >> very fast and kind of >> when you do think about hiring your first head of sales do you think there's some special things you're looking for in your first head of sales that's different than an excellent atscale sales leader or a great head of sales can go from 1 to 50 million or 50 to 500 or sort of that type of thing.","startTime":1019.36,"endTime":1121.2,"durationSeconds":102,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"창업자 영업과 피드백 루프 통찰 탁월."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"The second part after that is which is kind of tied to recruiting 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we are doing this P and the things are going very well suddenly oh we lost a deal it's like why did we lost a deal because there was another person who was pitching for competitor we didn't know about that is a bad sales process like in a structured sales process you will try to find that early on you'll try to build the right you know champions in the found so you don't have surprises.","startTime":1271.6,"endTime":1302.72,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"구조적 세일즈 프로세스의 가치가 뚜렷함."},{"segmentIndex":12,"text":"If life I interview a sales person and they're not very clear if I ask them normally okay how did you perform on your targets in the last 10 years and they don't know it easily best people will have in their resumes even like you know 2020 I achieved 110% of my kota 21 I achieved 109% of my kota 23 I did this whatever right the reason I like that is like you know not just because they achieved more but because they are anchored as a measure of success 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people who are only experienced in enterprise selling and you want to sell to SMB they will struggle and same with like the people who only sell SMB they will struggle so that you definitely want like if you want your business enterprise selling you need someone who has experience enterprise selling have you noticed any patterns in hiring go to market people from like the third best company in the category versus the first Do you like the people that worked at the premium company in the category?","startTime":1547.44,"endTime":1609.919,"durationSeconds":62,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"세일즈 경험 적합성을 체계적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":41,"text":"Normally what happens is like the number one company is number one not just because they have great product but because they also have a very strong sales uh culture and DNA most of the time you do want someone who is like spend so they know what good sales culture and good sales discipline means I'm not biased against number one company because of that if someone is on number three company and they've done well because the product was not very good and they've sold it there is value to it I would rather take someone who's coming from a highly disciplined and sales culture because then you don't have to teach them that cuz they already know they have spent like 3 years, 5 years, 7 years in that highly disciplined sales culture.","startTime":1634.08,"endTime":1671.44,"durationSeconds":37,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"상위 회사 출신 선호 이유를 논리적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"I studied computer science you know became software engineer then you know when you start as an entrepreneur it's you have to hone it you have to put your energy into it many times like you know software engineers come to me it's like hey you became from engineer to entrepreneur what skillsh you had to learn tell them you really need three skills there's the technical skills don't underestimate and forget that because that is your strength there's the people skills because you cannot build anything of size without you know alone and third is the business skills technical skills are your core So you have to make sure you don't lose your core power but you have to put deliberate energy in the other two skills which is the people and the business.","startTime":1731.919,"endTime":1768.88,"durationSeconds":37,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"창업가 핵심 역량을 명확히 구조화함."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"So you become much more revenue oriented and that was very key like you know just because that's was the only way to come out of it like and it was no easy path other than revenue there was no next round I could raise without it I think maybe that was it like you know you force yourself to do it like you know you found you find revenue find your way to learn how to get to revenue it's very simple like I tell everyone is like the only lifeblood of any company is revenue it's like if revenue is there most things will kind of you'll figure out and if not and if of you'll figure out and if not they won't >> you can build the best product everything have the best everything is if the revenue is not there ultimately you need the revenues.","startTime":1860.799,"endTime":1927.2,"durationSeconds":66,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"매출의 본질을 강하게 일반화함."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"you know so we there but the other part of the variable was also like you know I would say not the best investor board dynamic and that makes a creates execution uncertainty on what will happen in the future like you know what we'll do so that was a factor in there as well so when I also learned the lessons from the first company to second company to me that's very important as well like you know you got to make the right aligned set of investors and board like at harness we have this vision for building it for the a platform for the long term but if I have investors who don't want to do that for the long term who want to do in 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I said the main thing is to not go in the assumptions that what worked the first time will always work the second time.","startTime":20.56,"endTime":27.76,"durationSeconds":7,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.6,"rationale":"재창업 교훈이 분명한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":23,"text":"Now if now you are want to change to something else or build something in parallel that's just organizationally hard you know so that's the one part that I see like you know you build all the machine around it's mostly marketing heavy mostly PLG you have like cheaper younger inside sales people enterprise will be more salesled you know you have partners and channels and expensive enterprise sales people longer sales cycle so there's a shift in how the financial planning will happen in your company and would the CFO will on board with it.","startTime":134.8,"endTime":165.44,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"조직·재무 전환 통찰이 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":24,"text":"The sales people what you celebrated before how the product managers work with go to market those just a you know company's DNA get created over time the second is the product you know the products are that are designed for mid-market and products that are designed for enterprise have certain differences in enterprise you need a high you want lots of capabilities and lots of flexibility could become a complex user experience in midm market so What's your strength in enterprise could become your weakness in there verse also applies like you know in enter in mid-market you designed a simple product with less capabilities but now it doesn't work and do the things in enterprise so it's possible to do both you know it's possible to do both but you have to design the products in the right kind of way where you kind of remove the things that are not needed in market you price it in a certain way uh but it's just hard like enter for enterprise focused companies to go mid-market is also hard >> I mean you very rarely see a company 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make.","startTime":510.639,"endTime":546.399,"durationSeconds":36,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"고객 집중의 비용을 구체적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"So now at some point you can predict like based on the how many leads you know that what you're going to close in 6 months because you know this is your sales cycle you can start planning your business in terms of how many sellers you're going to new sellers you will hire how long it takes them to ramp how many you what's the sales capacity that comes from it what's the demand generation capacity that comes from it so then you know like you know okay we want to go from 50 to 100 you know what you need otherwise if you are like I we're going to go to 50 to 100 we have this many sellers today and you know we're going to close business in these accounts and deals that doesn't work like to me it's like a scaled sales organization is when you're not talking about deals you're talking about capacity like you know the deals will happen like you know we have the right capacity when you say okay I have 20 million a quarter of ramped sales capacity so I know like I'm going to close you know 90% business of that roughly 18 million without even thinking of what deals you have for the 18 million then you have you know your predictable system of course at the end of the day you have some deals you have to close but you can get to a point where you know you don't need to think about what deal what not, right?","startTime":672.16,"endTime":733.519,"durationSeconds":61,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"스케일드 영업 정의가 매우 선명함."},{"segmentIndex":16,"text":"I the first question I asked him okay how many happy successful customers you have and it's like we don't really have any happy successful customers or we have like three or four or five product is not ready yet to for go to market to really scale on it that's where I look at like you know many time that is the founder le sales job is to deliver not just the first 25 customers but also the first 25 success stories or like the successful outcomes that come out of it >> a lot of the product maturity happens in that process not in the selling process is the delivering the value in the into those.","startTime":797.2,"endTime":828.48,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"초기 창업자 역할과 기준을 잘 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":20,"text":"In harness we run a very structured sales process where we will create a assessment before we sell which is this is the value you're going to get like you know if you buy harness and use using harness for continuous delivery you know your deployments like we do an assessment of like right now you're deploying once in two weeks you can become once a day your engineers spend this much time per deployment like you know 6 hours per deployment that can come down to 30 minutes per deployment you know your failure rate is this much today you know of 20% deployment failure rate we can bring it down to 4%, you define 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air of sales and uh I said okay I'll just hire a few reps I know how to manage them I know how to interview them I know what to do there one of the big points I think you're trying to make is that the way the product is delivered and the way the product is built is one and the same and they have to go together and so when you're selling it and you're close to the customer and you're building the product you have a very tight feedback loop between those >> very fast and kind of >> when you do think about hiring your first head of sales do you think there's some special things you're looking for in your first head of sales that's different than an excellent atscale sales leader or a great head of sales can go from 1 to 50 million or 50 to 500 or sort of that type of thing.","startTime":1019.36,"endTime":1121.2,"durationSeconds":102,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"창업자 영업과 피드백 루프 통찰 탁월."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"The second part after that is which is kind of tied to recruiting 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we are doing this P and the things are going very well suddenly oh we lost a deal it's like why did we lost a deal because there was another person who was pitching for competitor we didn't know about that is a bad sales process like in a structured sales process you will try to find that early on you'll try to build the right you know champions in the found so you don't have surprises.","startTime":1271.6,"endTime":1302.72,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"구조적 세일즈 프로세스의 가치가 뚜렷함."},{"segmentIndex":12,"text":"If life I interview a sales person and they're not very clear if I ask them normally okay how did you perform on your targets in the last 10 years and they don't know it easily best people will have in their resumes even like you know 2020 I achieved 110% of my kota 21 I achieved 109% of my kota 23 I did this whatever right the reason I like that is like you know not just because they achieved more but because they are anchored as a measure of success 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people who are only experienced in enterprise selling and you want to sell to SMB they will struggle and same with like the people who only sell SMB they will struggle so that you definitely want like if you want your business enterprise selling you need someone who has experience enterprise selling have you noticed any patterns in hiring go to market people from like the third best company in the category versus the first Do you like the people that worked at the premium company in the category?","startTime":1547.44,"endTime":1609.919,"durationSeconds":62,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"세일즈 경험 적합성을 체계적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":41,"text":"Normally what happens is like the number one company is number one not just because they have great product but because they also have a very strong sales uh culture and DNA most of the time you do want someone who is like spend so they know what good sales culture and good sales discipline means I'm not biased against number one company because of that if someone is on number three company and they've done well because the product was not very good and they've sold it there is value to it I would rather take someone who's coming from a highly disciplined and sales culture because then you don't have to teach them that cuz they already know they have spent like 3 years, 5 years, 7 years in that highly disciplined sales culture.","startTime":1634.08,"endTime":1671.44,"durationSeconds":37,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"상위 회사 출신 선호 이유를 논리적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"I studied computer science you know became software engineer then you know when you start as an entrepreneur it's you have to hone it you have to put your energy into it many times like you know software engineers come to me it's like hey you became from engineer to entrepreneur what skillsh you had to learn tell them you really need three skills there's the technical skills don't underestimate and forget that because that is your strength there's the people skills because you cannot build anything of size without you know alone and third is the business skills technical skills are your core So you have to make sure you don't lose your core power but you have to put deliberate energy in the other two skills which is the people and the business.","startTime":1731.919,"endTime":1768.88,"durationSeconds":37,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"창업가 핵심 역량을 명확히 구조화함."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"So you become much more revenue oriented and that was very key like you know just because that's was the only way to come out of it like and it was no easy path other than revenue there was no next round I could raise without it I think maybe that was it like you know you force yourself to do it like you know you found you find revenue find your way to learn how to get to revenue it's very simple like I tell everyone is like the only lifeblood of any company is revenue it's like if revenue is there most things will kind of you'll figure out and if not and if of you'll figure out and if not they won't >> you can build the best product everything have the best everything is if the revenue is not there ultimately you need the revenues.","startTime":1860.799,"endTime":1927.2,"durationSeconds":66,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"매출의 본질을 강하게 일반화함."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"you know so we there but the other part of the variable was also like you know I would say not the best investor board dynamic and that makes a creates execution uncertainty on what will happen in the future like you know what we'll do so that was a factor in there as well so when I also learned the lessons from the first company to second company to me that's very important as well like you know you got to make the right aligned set of investors and board like at harness we have this vision for building it for the a platform for the long term but if I have investors who don't want to do that for the long term who want to do in different vision for what the company should be then you're kind of misaligned and that creates a big execution and uncertainty and risk.","startTime":2318.64,"endTime":2353.92,"durationSeconds":35,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"투자자 정렬의 중요성을 깊게 설명함."},{"segmentIndex":5,"text":"One is are they investing because they believe in the vision and they believe in the founder or they investing for FOMO because you know half of them are of the investors are just oh this is a hot deal I need to chase it and they don't really fundamentally believe in the problem or you that's one thing I say like how do you figure that out you know in the process like how much someone who's coming who's want to invest how much conviction they have like do they have a point of view of why they want to invest in not just because you're suddenly a hot deal and that's why they want to invest that definitely is one but I also look that do the reference checks and all on how they would behave in hard 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I said the main thing is to not go in the assumptions that what worked the first time will always work the second time.","startTime":20.56,"endTime":27.76,"durationSeconds":7,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.6,"rationale":"재창업 교훈이 분명한 문장."},{"segmentIndex":23,"text":"Now if now you are want to change to something else or build something in parallel that's just organizationally hard you know so that's the one part that I see like you know you build all the machine around it's mostly marketing heavy mostly PLG you have like cheaper younger inside sales people enterprise will be more salesled you know you have partners and channels and expensive enterprise sales people longer sales cycle so there's a shift in how the financial planning will happen in your company and would the CFO will on board with it.","startTime":134.8,"endTime":165.44,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"조직·재무 전환 통찰이 매우 풍부."},{"segmentIndex":24,"text":"The sales people what you celebrated before how the product managers work with go to market those just a you know company's DNA get created over time the second is the product you know the products are that are designed for mid-market and products that are designed for enterprise have certain differences in enterprise you need a high you want lots of capabilities and lots of flexibility could become a complex user experience in midm market so What's your strength in enterprise could become your weakness in there verse also applies like you know in enter in mid-market you designed a simple product with less capabilities but now it doesn't work and do the things in enterprise so it's possible to do both you know it's possible to do both but you have to design the products in the right kind of way where you kind of remove the things that are not needed in market you price it in a certain way uh but it's just hard like enter for enterprise focused companies to go mid-market is also hard >> I mean you very rarely see a company 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make.","startTime":510.639,"endTime":546.399,"durationSeconds":36,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"고객 집중의 비용을 구체적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"So now at some point you can predict like based on the how many leads you know that what you're going to close in 6 months because you know this is your sales cycle you can start planning your business in terms of how many sellers you're going to new sellers you will hire how long it takes them to ramp how many you what's the sales capacity that comes from it what's the demand generation capacity that comes from it so then you know like you know okay we want to go from 50 to 100 you know what you need otherwise if you are like I we're going to go to 50 to 100 we have this many sellers today and you know we're going to close business in these accounts and deals that doesn't work like to me it's like a scaled sales organization is when you're not talking about deals you're talking about capacity like you know the deals will happen like you know we have the right capacity when you say okay I have 20 million a quarter of ramped sales capacity so I know like I'm going to close you know 90% business of that roughly 18 million without even thinking of what deals you have for the 18 million then you have you know your predictable system of course at the end of the day you have some deals you have to close but you can get to a point where you know you don't need to think about what deal what not, right?","startTime":672.16,"endTime":733.519,"durationSeconds":61,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"스케일드 영업 정의가 매우 선명함."},{"segmentIndex":16,"text":"I the first question I asked him okay how many happy successful customers you have and it's like we don't really have any happy successful customers or we have like three or four or five product is not ready yet to for go to market to really scale on it that's where I look at like you know many time that is the founder le sales job is to deliver not just the first 25 customers but also the first 25 success stories or like the successful outcomes that come out of it >> a lot of the product maturity happens in that process not in the selling process is the delivering the value in the into those.","startTime":797.2,"endTime":828.48,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"초기 창업자 역할과 기준을 잘 짚음."},{"segmentIndex":20,"text":"In harness we run a very structured sales process where we will create a assessment before we sell which is this is the value you're going to get like you know if you buy harness and use using harness for continuous delivery you know your deployments like we do an assessment of like right now you're deploying once in two weeks you can become once a day your engineers spend this much time per deployment like you know 6 hours per deployment that can come down to 30 minutes per deployment you know your failure rate is this much today you know of 20% deployment failure rate we can bring it down to 4%, you define the outcomes in the sales process and then you know after the you know once you sell it we work with the customer on have you achieved those outcomes and have you if you not achieved those outcomes you haven't delivered the value that we promised even if you're not that structured around it I really think like the happy successful customer definition is very simple is have they achieved the value outcome they thought when they bought it and if they have then they most customers are happy if that happens in the case of harness when you think about building out the early goto market team.","startTime":870.639,"endTime":932.079,"durationSeconds":61,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"가치 약속-검증 프로세스가 매우 구체적."},{"segmentIndex":27,"text":"And so that's what I did like and I was able to attract a VP of sales you know at that time and then the VP of sales brought in started to build it out and all that at harness actually I did decide that I know now it's like I at dynamics I work with sales people all the time I know enterprise software sales and all that so I had enough skills that you know and I could attract a head of sales very easily and harness but I actually wanted to have a couple of reps just work with me initially I felt like I need to be close very close to the customers in that I was still like in the transition from founder le sales very early on at harness to me it was very clear that I need to be you know the second time founder I was a bit paranoid about that I don't want to be too far removed at app dynamics right before I was leading a org of like thousand people as was my last job there as a CEO and now you come in and like just completely on the ground at five people and that's a shift and then you you're you may get into like okay I need these layers of people to do things and I was very paranoid about not doing that I need to go on the ground and not bring layers so actually harness I initially didn't hire until the first million I didn't hire air of sales and uh I said okay I'll just hire a few reps I know how to manage them I know how to interview them I know what to do there one of the big points I think you're trying to make is that the way the product is delivered and the way the product is built is one and the same and they have to go together and so when you're selling it and you're close to the customer and you're building the product you have a very tight feedback loop between those >> very fast and kind of >> when you do think about hiring your first head of sales do you think there's some special things you're looking for in your first head of sales that's different than an excellent atscale sales leader or a great head of sales can go from 1 to 50 million or 50 to 500 or sort of that type of thing.","startTime":1019.36,"endTime":1121.2,"durationSeconds":102,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"창업자 영업과 피드백 루프 통찰 탁월."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"The second part after that is which is kind of tied to recruiting 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we are doing this P and the things are going very well suddenly oh we lost a deal it's like why did we lost a deal because there was another person who was pitching for competitor we didn't know about that is a bad sales process like in a structured sales process you will try to find that early on you'll try to build the right you know champions in the found so you don't have surprises.","startTime":1271.6,"endTime":1302.72,"durationSeconds":31,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"구조적 세일즈 프로세스의 가치가 뚜렷함."},{"segmentIndex":12,"text":"If life I interview a sales person and they're not very clear if I ask them normally okay how did you perform on your targets in the last 10 years and they don't know it easily best people will have in their resumes even like you know 2020 I achieved 110% of my kota 21 I achieved 109% of my kota 23 I did this whatever right the reason I like that is like you know not just because they achieved more but because they are anchored as a measure of success around that like do they take pride in it and do they consider that you know you want to achieve your goals and targets is uh is the thing you take pride in. people who don't like you and you ask them okay how did you do and they all start speaking like in abstract terms I know like I want a saleserson and say I achieved 100% of my target or 70% of my target for these reasons or but someone who doesn't even know their target or talk about that is normally a bad sign what I've seen is like the you recruit very well and you are almost like obsessed with the talent that you can recruit you enable them well you know enable could be at the rep level enable could be at the manager level at the leader level as the or grows you know you run a tight disciplined sales process and you take, you know, extreme ownership of the number and you kind of drive that ownership of the number across the org.","startTime":1324.32,"endTime":1392.24,"durationSeconds":68,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"채용 기준과 성과 태도를 촘촘히 설명."},{"segmentIndex":37,"text":"enterprise infrastructure you're selling to IT and technical people and the third would be the hardware oriented things like firewalls and all that and I do care about that you have like when I'm selling an enterprise infrastructure I've seen like yes people coming from business applications can succeed but there's a risk there people coming from hardware selling can succeed but there's a risk there these three buckets are broad enough like I don't need to be like an infrastructure software that someone has sold a CI/CD product doesn't matter to me like if they have sold anything infrastructure software that's good enough like they know how to sell to IT and how to sell to infrastructure people and technical people and developers and all that you know that's normally I would look at I do look at SMB versus enterprise for sure the people who are only experienced in enterprise selling and you want to sell to SMB they will struggle and same with like the people who only sell SMB they will struggle so that you definitely want like if you want your business enterprise selling you need someone who has experience enterprise selling have you noticed any patterns in hiring go to market people from like the third best company in the category versus the first Do you like the people that worked at the premium company in the category?","startTime":1547.44,"endTime":1609.919,"durationSeconds":62,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"세일즈 경험 적합성을 체계적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":41,"text":"Normally what happens is like the number one company is number one not just because they have great product but because they also have a very strong sales uh culture and DNA most of the time you do want someone who is like spend so they know what good sales culture and good sales discipline means I'm not biased against number one company because of that if someone is on number three company and they've done well because the product was not very good and they've sold it there is value to it I would rather take someone who's coming from a highly disciplined and sales culture because then you don't have to teach them that cuz they already know they have spent like 3 years, 5 years, 7 years in that highly disciplined sales culture.","startTime":1634.08,"endTime":1671.44,"durationSeconds":37,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"상위 회사 출신 선호 이유를 논리적으로 설명."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"I studied computer science you know became software engineer then you know when you start as an entrepreneur it's you have to hone it you have to put your energy into it many times like you know software engineers come to me it's like hey you became from engineer to entrepreneur what skillsh you had to learn tell them you really need three skills there's the technical skills don't underestimate and forget that because that is your strength there's the people skills because you cannot build anything of size without you know alone and third is the business skills technical skills are your core So you have to make sure you don't lose your core power but you have to put deliberate energy in the other two skills which is the people and the business.","startTime":1731.919,"endTime":1768.88,"durationSeconds":37,"level":"C1","overallScore":9,"rationale":"창업가 핵심 역량을 명확히 구조화함."},{"segmentIndex":7,"text":"So you become much more revenue oriented and that was very key like you know just because that's was the only way to come out of it like and it was no easy path other than revenue there was no next round I could raise without it I think maybe that was it like you know you force yourself to do it like you know you found you find revenue find your way to learn how to get to revenue it's very simple like I tell everyone is like the only lifeblood of any company is revenue it's like if revenue is there most things will kind of you'll figure out and if not and if of you'll figure out and if not they won't >> you can build the best product everything have the best everything is if the revenue is not there ultimately you need the revenues.","startTime":1860.799,"endTime":1927.2,"durationSeconds":66,"level":"B2","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"매출의 본질을 강하게 일반화함."},{"segmentIndex":49,"text":"you know so we there but the other part of the variable was also like you know I would say not the best investor board dynamic and that makes a creates execution uncertainty on what will happen in the future like you know what we'll do so that was a factor in there as well so when I also learned the lessons from the first company to second company to me that's very important as well like you know you got to make the right aligned set of investors and board like at harness we have this vision for building it for the a platform for the long term but if I have investors who don't want to do that for the long term who want to do in different vision for what the company should be then you're kind of misaligned and that creates a big execution and uncertainty and risk.","startTime":2318.64,"endTime":2353.92,"durationSeconds":35,"level":"C1","overallScore":8.8,"rationale":"투자자 정렬의 중요성을 깊게 설명함."},{"segmentIndex":5,"text":"One is are they investing because they believe in the vision and they believe in the founder or they investing for FOMO because you know half of them are of the investors are just oh this is a hot deal I need to chase it and they don't really fundamentally believe in the problem or you that's one thing I say like how do you figure that out you know in the process like how much someone who's coming who's want to invest how much conviction they have like do they have a point of view of why they want to invest in not just because you're suddenly a hot deal and that's why they want to invest that definitely is one but I also look that do the reference checks and all on how they would behave in hard 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